Wanting To Make A Strong Belgian Ale?

[scoundrel]

hey guys

ive picked uo a brewcraft belgian ale kit, a dark crystle malt can, a safbrew t-58 yeast and 60g hallertau hops. i just need to know how much dex to add in so that the end product is sitting up around 12.5%

trying to make something similar to the red duck strong belgian ale i had at mrs parmas all victorian beer bar in melbourne last time i was down.

 

[caleb]

q1) 12.5% is pretty bloody strong, even for a 'strong ale'... you REALLY want this much? Trust me, it WILL knock you around much more than a wine of similar strength.

q2) How much malt and other fermentables have you got so far? I estimate you'd need around 6 - 6.5kg total for a 22 litre batch.

disclaimer: I just drank a bottle of my 10% Sauvin Blanc ale, to see how it was progressing of course, so anything I say or do may be totally screwed up right now.

 

[scoundrel]

what ive said as above plus a1kg of ultra brew ( malt dex corn syrup) and a 1kg of straight dex.

 

[hoohaaman]

Pretty sure T-58 will run out puff way before 12.5%,best it will do is around 11% all being a perfect environment.

Just adding any sugar for the abv,wont make it like red duck strong belgian ale.

Strong ales are a fine balance between,attenuation ,mash temps,fermentation temps and a good liquid yeast.IMHO

I think you could come fairly close with a kit,but only with a yeast like 1388,and stringent fermentation temps.


Oh and adding sugar to fermentation in intervals

 

[scoundrel]

cheers guys i sort of cut my losses and went with 1 kg of ulktra brew and a half kg of dex, will add more in about 4-5 days time. now that ive moved house im able to be more stringent with my temps so quality should come up abit.

 

[hosko11]

To give you an idea, I did a belgian strong ale with 4.5kg Light LME and 1.25kg of raw sugar (which was added to the fermentor after 3 days). Vol was 23L and fermented with the wyeast belgian strong ale (1388??) yeastie with a temp ramp from 18C to 26C over 7 days. The beer had a nice toffee flavour to it - I couldn't stop drinking it :icon_drool2: . Well actually, I wanted to keep drinking it, but after about 2 PET's the legs thought otherwise. I dunno what the % was and didn't think it was that high, but maybe it was and as Caleb said high % alc beer knocks you round big time. Good luck!

 

[brettprevans]

red duck pale ale - 4.5%
4 ducks strong belgian - 10.5%

so you dont need to get up to 12.5%. the 4ducks also has a very toffee flavour so using dex wont get you that same flavour.


edit: you'll also need to drop in some simple sugars leter in the ferment to rouse the fat lazy yeasties back to life.

 

[manticle]

Here's my recipe I recently put together.

Based on a Morgan's Belgian recipe with a few additions of my own. It's still in primary and I have no idea of the likely percentage (I just want a tasty rich flavoured ale) but I'm keen to see how various similarly styled extract beers go.

I'm far from expert so it's advisable not to take my advice unless you have some grains of salt at hand.

1 x Morgans Yukon smoked ale kit
1.5 kg x Morgans amber malt extract
1kg x Morgans Caramalt Malt extract
15g liberty hop pellets
15g Hallertau hop pellets
200g Golden Syrup
500g Invert candy sugar (using fresh orange juice in place of citric acid)
Handful fresh (home grown and dried) coriander seed
Zest 2 oranges
15g brew cellar ale yeast
Yeast cake from 4 small chimay blue bottles (drain beer into other container, use cool boiled water to extract yeast at bottom of bottle)
4g Yeast nutrient

Method: Boil malt extracts with 3 L water. Lower to simmer, simmer 15 mins. Add Hop Pellets, simmer 10 mins. Add crushed coriander seed and zest , simmer 5 mins. Remove from heat.

Put yeast and yeast cake into bowl with 500 ml tepid water.
Add candy sugar and golden syrup to malt mix and stir well. Add to sanitised fermenter and allow to stand for 10 mins. Add contents of smoked ale tin, mix and place in fermenter. Top up fermenter to around 18 L with cold water. Add yeast and yeast nutrient. Ferment and bottle in the usual way.

I posted the recipe elsewhere although following a little advice from here I changed a couple of things from the original post/idea.

I didn't culture the yeast properly (too eager to get going) so that may have absolutely no effect. It's fermenting away nicely at around 18-20 degrees and I reckon it will be bottled in another week or so.

Keen to hear how yours goes.

 

[scoundrel]

well i check abv % yesterday after 2 days it was sitting at 4.28%, sample was hoppy enough for my liking but will throw some dext and honey in today, still debating wether or not ill dry hop.

 

[manticle]

Here's my recipe I recently put together.
..........................

I added about 300g of dissolved dextrose to the fermenter today.

It has been in the fermenter for exactly a week, sitting at about 20 deg. Hydrometer reading was around 1020.

I also threw in a tiny bit more yeast nutrient for good measure.

 

[unterberg]

Here's my recipe I recently put together.

Based on a Morgan's Belgian recipe with a few additions of my own. It's still in primary and I have no idea of the likely percentage (I just want a tasty rich flavoured ale) but I'm keen to see how various similarly styled extract beers go.

I'm far from expert so it's advisable not to take my advice unless you have some grains of salt at hand.

1 x Morgans Yukon smoked ale kit
1.5 kg x Morgans amber malt extract
1kg x Morgans Caramalt Malt extract
15g liberty hop pellets
15g Hallertau hop pellets
200g Golden Syrup
500g Invert candy sugar (using fresh orange juice in place of citric acid)
Handful fresh (home grown and dried) coriander seed
Zest 2 oranges
15g brew cellar ale yeast
Yeast cake from 4 small chimay blue bottles (drain beer into other container, use cool boiled water to extract yeast at bottom of bottle)
4g Yeast nutrient

Method: Boil malt extracts with 3 L water. Lower to simmer, simmer 15 mins. Add Hop Pellets, simmer 10 mins. Add crushed coriander seed and zest , simmer 5 mins. Remove from heat.

Put yeast and yeast cake into bowl with 500 ml tepid water.
Add candy sugar and golden syrup to malt mix and stir well. Add to sanitised fermenter and allow to stand for 10 mins. Add contents of smoked ale tin, mix and place in fermenter. Top up fermenter to around 18 L with cold water. Add yeast and yeast nutrient. Ferment and bottle in the usual way.

I posted the recipe elsewhere although following a little advice from here I changed a couple of things from the original post/idea.

I didn't culture the yeast properly (too eager to get going) so that may have absolutely no effect. It's fermenting away nicely at around 18-20 degrees and I reckon it will be bottled in another week or so.

Keen to hear how yours goes.

I would boil the sugar and syrup as well. And stick with one yeast. Or did you mean either the ale yeast or recultured yeast from the Chimay bottle?

 

[manticle]

Maybe next time. It's been fermenting for 7 days. It tastes lovely so far though and that's pretty rare for kit based brews in my limited experience.

I used both yeasts (although as mentioned the chimay wasn't a real farmed yeast - just cake gathered from several bottles using cooled boiled water after draining the original into a glass for 'taste testing'.)

The candy sugar had been made just prior to boiling the malt so it was still hot.

What's the advantage of boiling the syrup and sugar and would you recommend boiling it as long as the malt?

I'm new to extract brewing and if this works even vaguely well I'd do the recipe again. Any improvements or suggestions for improvements are more than welcome. It's currently an experiment from a non-expert but learning how and why things work is only going to lead to better results.

 

[unterberg]

Maybe next time. It's been fermenting for 7 days. It tastes lovely so far though and that's pretty rare for kit based brews in my limited experience.

I used both yeasts (although as mentioned the chimay wasn't a real farmed yeast - just cake gathered from several bottles using cooled boiled water after draining the original into a glass for 'taste testing'.)

The candy sugar had been made just prior to boiling the malt so it was still hot.

What's the advantage of boiling the syrup and sugar and would you recommend boiling it as long as the malt?

I'm new to extract brewing and if this works even vaguely well I'd do the recipe again. Any improvements or suggestions for improvements are more than welcome. It's currently an experiment from a non-expert but learning how and why things work is only going to lead to better results.

So the ale yeast is the one doing the job.

Its just a good general practice to boil all ingredients to work "sterile". The fresh made candy sugar was fine then anyway. Dried malt and loose stuff are best added at the end of your boil to not affect the bittering. 5mins prior to your boil is finished would be ok. But in your case it was not for bittering anyway.
Canned malt and kit goo are normally "sterile" and can be added directly into the fermenter.
But anyhow I am sure the yeast will do its job and it will be all good.