Unsure If Keg Setup Is Unbalanced Or Over/under Carbed

[pcmfisher]

One thing I learnt (the hard way) when I finished my kegerator was that "serving pressure" is not the same for every system. I have a chest freezer conversion with a collar, 4 kegs inside, 5mm ID lines at 2m lengths, chilled to 4C and 2 fans inside to keep the air circulating inside and I never force carb. Normal sounding system right? Yet if I leave it at the serving pressure I've read everyone using ie: 50 - 80kpa the kegs become over-carbonated to the point of me ending up with a schooner of foam and 1cm of beer after about 7 days.

So I set my regulator to around 10 - 20kpa, basically as soon as the needle lifts off the bar. Dont ask me why but only at this rate can I get good carbonation and the right sized head. :blink:

Maybe worth a shot?

Does your gauge creep up to way too much? Eg. If you set it at say 50kpa today, tomorrow its up to 110?

 

[bignath]

The rock'n'roll method is a terrible way to carbonate beer. It's inconsistent and unreliable.

I disagree. Providing a system is "known" by the user....I know this is not the OP's situation, but once he gets his head around his system and knows how it will all behave under whatever conditions, then force carbing CAN be a great way to carbonate.

I don't find it unreliable at all.

Hook a cold keg up to the gas, and either:

1. Set reg to serving pressure and shake until gas stops being absorbed. May take a while but heaps faster than set and forget. And impossible to overcarb doing it this way.

2. A little more risky, but once again, when he has his system worked out, set reg at a high pressure, rock for a length of time, check carb, repeat if necessary with any required adjustments.

I have got my system down pat (pardon the reference), and i know that if i set my regulator to "X" and shake at a certain speed for "Y" amount of time, let sit for 15mins, burp and repeat, i'll guarantee perfect carbonation ON MY SYSTEM.

I don't always force carb however, and if i have the time, i'll set and forget at serving pressure as i can't be assed shaking/rocking whatever if it's not urgent that i replace a keg.
I only force carb if stocks are really low, but to say that force carbing is unreliable and inconsistent is not accurate at all.

When done well, and with knowledge of how your setup behaves, it's incredibly easy and accurate, and if done to method 1 above, it's impossible to get it wrong.

 

[Phoney]

Does your gauge creep up to way too much? Eg. If you set it at say 50kpa today, tomorrow its up to 110?

No, on the contrary they creep back down.

 

[Pat Casey]

I disagree. Providing a system is "known" by the user....I know this is not the OP's situation, but once he gets his head around his system and knows how it will all behave under whatever conditions, then force carbing CAN be a great way to carbonate.

I don't find it unreliable at all.

You don't get the phone calls I get!

Pat

 

[hando]

Step 6 Turn the gas off at the regulator and then continue rocking the keg. You will notice the gas pressure on the regulator start to drop quite quickly. The video shows the rough speed that the pressure drops back. This should stop at around about 140-160kPa. If the pressure drop stops above 160kPa you may have overgassed the beer by rocking for longer than 50 seconds. If it falls below 140kPa, the beer is not gassed enough and you will need to repeat steps 4-6 again but for 10-15 seconds only for step 4.

I've used the Ross method and I usually end up over carbonating. I have followed it to the letter. I think the instructions must be written incorrectly here:

Step 6 Turn the gas off at the regulator and then continue rocking the keg.... If it falls below 140kPa, the beer is not gassed enough and you will need to repeat steps 4-6 again but for 10-15 seconds only for step 4.

If you rock the keg and the gas won't drop below 140kpa, then you have 140kpa or more. This is over carbonated!!!

I disagree. Providing a system is "known" by the user....I know this is not the OP's situation, but once he gets his head around his system and knows how it will all behave under whatever conditions, then force carbing CAN be a great way to carbonate.

I don't find it unreliable at all.

Hook a cold keg up to the gas, and either:

1. Set reg to serving pressure and shake until gas stops being absorbed. May take a while but heaps faster than set and forget. And impossible to overcarb doing it this way.

2. A little more risky, but once again, when he has his system worked out, set reg at a high pressure, rock for a length of time, check carb, repeat if necessary with any required adjustments.

I have got my system down pat (pardon the reference), and i know that if i set my regulator to "X" and shake at a certain speed for "Y" amount of time, let sit for 15mins, burp and repeat, i'll guarantee perfect carbonation ON MY SYSTEM.

I don't always force carb however, and if i have the time, i'll set and forget at serving pressure as i can't be assed shaking/rocking whatever if it's not urgent that i replace a keg.
I only force carb if stocks are really low, but to say that force carbing is unreliable and inconsistent is not accurate at all.

When done well, and with knowledge of how your setup behaves, it's incredibly easy and accurate, and if done to method 1 above, it's impossible to get it wrong.

This makes it sound easy... particularly the ending "when done well" and "impossible to get wrong". In reality, the only way to "get your head around" your system would be through trial and error which may involve a few umm... errors along the way.

I've found that the beer tastes soooo much better after about 2 weeks in the keg.... it seems to settle down and lose it's pungent flavours and aromas etc. So from now on I will probably set the reg to serving pressure and wait a week. The other upside to this method is the smaller bubbles.

Good luck, whatever you do.

 

[Marc One]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the late reply. First of all thanks for all of the input! Even when this topic has been done to death.

It has taken me a few days, but I ended up sorting out my keg setup, and have learnt a heap about it while fixing it.

So in the end, I went to Clark Rubber and bought 3m of 5mm ID beer line. I found the VERY helpful carbonation/temp/beer line length & diameter xcel spreadsheet that was somewhere on this forum. I set the reg to the setting that was required for the temp of my fridge and length of my line (80 - 90kPa). I hooked up the line and (after letting it sit for 24hrs as well) poured a beer and voila, no foam! Glass was full of beer, no head and no bubbles. I left it another 24 hours, sampled it and it was well on it's way to perfect carbonation. So the problem ended up being the beer line length.

One thing this whole experience reaffirmed for me was that corners cut in homebrewing means an end product that falls short of expectations. I embraced the Ross Method because a heap of brewers use it successfully and when done correctly I have no doubt it carbs your keg perfectly. It enabled me to drink my beer in record time compared to bottling, and was a way to test out my newly acquired keg system that I was busting to try out.

But you know what, after everything my beer tasted like crap! All of the yeast was stirred up and it had that "homebrewy" taste. I was thinking I may have stuffed up with sanitation along the way at first, but I am very thorough with that sort of thing. Tonight, I had another beer out of system, and it has become noticeably clearer. The yeast has settled and it tastes a heap better than that first tasting after changing the line.

When bottling i was forced to wait a few weeks before tasting my hard work, which is beneficial in the whole scheme of things. I already knew that beer takes a few weeks to mature to the end result one is initially chasing. I lost site of that with the keg set up because I was caught up in the whole "time saving, beer the next day, awesome!" element of it all. From now on though, I think I'm going to stick with aging the keg under serving pressure and play the waiting game, rather than drink "green beer" that I've spent a large chunk of time making straight away.

Thanks again all for your help. These are newby findings as well. Please set me straight if any conclusions drawn from my findings are misguided.

 

[crozdog]

I found the VERY helpful carbonation/temp/beer line length & diameter xcel spreadsheet that was somewhere on this forum.
Thanks again all for your help. These are newby findings as well. Please set me straight if any conclusions drawn from my findings are misguided.

Good to see that that spreadsheet continues to be referenced & useful. I had similar issues when I started kegging but the only info I could find on balancing was not in metric so being a modern guy couldn't work it out. B) spent a few hours developing the spreadsheet & happy days.

A balanced system is a nirvana state - but understanding what is happening is the only way to work out how it can be short cut (e.g. the Ross method).

Glad to hear you've getting to grips with the concepts & your system.

beers
crozdog

 

[Phoney]

Good to see that that spreadsheet continues to be referenced & useful.

OK I found your spreadsheet not so useful.

I entered in beer temp 4C, 2.5 desired carbonation, 0.5 from keg centre to tap, 3/16" I.D beer line (5mm)... and got 1.08m calculated line lengths! WTF? That's way too short.