The Subjectivity Of Wine

[Zizzle]

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/11/the...source=rss_feed

In 2001, Frederic Brochet, of the University of Bordeaux, conducted two separate and very mischievous experiments. In the first test, Brochet invited 57 wine experts and asked them to give their impressions of what looked like two glasses of red and white wine. The wines were actually the same white wine, one of which had been tinted red with food coloring. But that didn't stop the experts from describing the "red" wine in language typically used to describe red wines. One expert praised its "jamminess," while another enjoyed its "crushed red fruit." Not a single one noticed it was actually a white wine.

The second test Brochet conducted was even more damning. He took a middling Bordeaux and served it in two different bottles. One bottle was a fancy grand-cru. The other bottle was an ordinary vin du table. Despite the fact that they were actually being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the differently labeled bottles nearly opposite ratings. The grand cru was "agreeable, woody, complex, balanced and rounded," while the vin du table was "weak, short, light, flat and faulty". Forty experts said the wine with the fancy label was worth drinking, while only 12 said the cheap wine was.

How many times has someone tasted your brew out of an umarked brown bottle and proclaimed it not as good as VB or New?

 

[brettprevans]

I have an uncle who constantly proclaims my HB is crap compared to Hahn Ice. Ive let him taste 10 differant brews and have now given up.

I recon the 'monkey see, monkey respond' is dead on. people tend to judge first on sight and hearing before taste. ie look at the bottle or hear someone say something about like 'its HB" then they think oh then it must be crap compared to commercial brewerys.

I hate it.

 

[Wardhog]

It's all preconception. I'm trying to hone my sense of taste, and have found :
Give me a beer with the accompanying recipe, and I'll have an expectation of what it will taste like and, almost invariably, will find it and can be quite descriptive of it.
Give me a beer in a nondescript bottle and tell me nothing about it, you'll be lucky to get comments from me about anything other than the colour (because I'm not all that confident in my palate's accuracy)

Pre-judgements made from environmental data have a large influence on results.

These wine experts are obviously confident in their sense of taste, and it has proved to be their downfall on this occasion.

 

[chovain]

I have an uncle who constantly proclaims my HB is crap compared to Hahn Ice. Ive let him taste 10 differant brews and have now given up.

I recon the 'monkey see, monkey respond' is dead on. people tend to judge first on sight and hearing before taste. ie look at the bottle or hear someone say something about like 'its HB" then they think oh then it must be crap compared to commercial brewerys.

I hate it.

Take two bottles of Hahn Ice, and pour them into one of your homebrew bottles. Ask him what he thinks of it. When he tells you it's crap, you have two options:
1) Tell him what you did.
2) Repeat later, but this time, give him two bottles: One of your rebadged Hahn, and the other your favourite HB. Ask him for his opinion: If he had to drink one of them, which would it be?

Obviously be prepared for the possibility that he actually likes the taste of Hahn Ice though...

 

[BoilerBoy]

I have come to the conclusion that there are many beer drinkers who actually dont like the taste of beer.
Their palates have been harnessed and bridled to only respond to the taste triggers of commercial beer and a bottle with a label is the first reassuring trigger.

The words "home brew" and bottles not having a" label" are all equally warning triggers that inflame the preconception.

To be fair many people have fallen victim to the friend who has a go at his first K&K brew and the first thing he does is share it with all his mates and the premise against home brew is cemented.

The guys I know who love beer, but dont brew themselves are always asking "what are you brewing?' "whats in it?" and some have said "you have ruined me forever!"

Its not that my beer is neccessarily that great, but they love the flavour they say is mossing in many commercial beers.

Cheers,
BB

 

[chimera]

Hehe, the war cry of a beer swiller 'that's not VB'

Throw em a VB and don't waste the good stuff.. I've managed to convert one person from a one eyed mega-swiller to a connoisseur happy to try anything, but only after they came back from a holiday in Germany.

 

[jayse]

Brochet invited 57 wine experts

All this proves maybe is that they really were not experts to start with just wine tossers. I would think/assume someone who is truelly a expert in wine would know better otherwise they really are not experts are they? Maybe just wine tossers not actually professionals in the field or anything or great amatuers.

I haven't really come across the same thing with beer with most people in the same circles as us here. The 'uncle bob thinks my homebrew is crap' really is not what were talking about here. Were talking about so called experts getting bluffed etc.

 

[lacara]

I had a blind tasting of Aussie mainstream lagers with some mates.
Most would not drink any CUB beers except Crown Lager.
But most said that either Fosters or VB tasted better than Crownies.
I scored the best (11 out of 20), the wrong guesses were very close though (boags Prem instead of Cascade Prem).
Very difficult to tell the difference of 20 similar tasting beers (expecially after the 15th beer)

 

[brettprevans]

fair point Jayse. I missed the point slightly. (although funnily enough his name is bob). Bu then again I was meaning (and sorry for not further explaining) was that he is someone that recons he knows what a good wine and beer taste like... but i'll drop that thought and move on

I suppose an issue is applying the cross learning issue from wine to beer. ie making sure judges at beer comps actually know their stuff? but then again beer is probably a lot less forgiving on the palate than wine ie its easier to make mistakes with wine.

 

[domonsura]

I used to run cellarmasters tastings groups as part of my job in Auckland, NZ - and there sure are plenty of tossers out there. I did something similar to what is mentioned above with some cheap red cask wine transferred into the bottle of an extremely prestigious and well known Australian red.
2 of the 'amateurs' funnily enough reckoned that it wasn't true to label - but we had a resident self professed 'expert' in the group (every wine group has at least one) who waffled on for nearly 1/2 an hour about the 'exquisite aromas, hints of this and shades of that, one would expect this from such a professional winemaker' he reckoned. He got most upset when I pulled the $18/3 litre cask out from under the table, and that was the last time we ever saw him. No great loss.
But I have to say, the tasters above should have picked the trick easily. Any of the truly experienced and qualified tasters I have know in the past have well developed & experienced palates, and are VERY VERY hard to fool. I've tried. And failed. One of them actually even picked exactly the brand of cheap wine I tried to fool him with which was impressive because it was a blend of god knows what.

There's a very big difference between a professional wine taster, and a 'wine writer/reviewer'........the latter generally think far too highly of their own abilities......

 

[Screwtop]

This email is doing the rounds here in QLD, probably the same in other states with the details switched.

A TRUE QUEENSLANDER

The General Managers of Cascade Brewery (Tasmania), Tooheys (New South Wales), XXXX (Queensland), CUB (Victoria) and Coopers (South Australia) were at a national beer conference.

They decide to all go to lunch together and the waitress asks what they want to drink.

The General Manager of Tooheys says without hesitation, "I'll have a Tooheys New."

The General Manager of Cascade smiles and says, "I'll have a Cascade Draught, brewed from pure mountain water."

The General Manager of Coopers proudly says, "I'll have a Coopers, the King of Beers."

The bloke from Carlton says, "I'll have a Carlton Draught, the cleanest draught on the planet."

The General Manager from XXXX glances at his lunch mates and says, "I'll have a Diet Coke."

The others look at him like he has sprouted a new head.

........

He just shrugs and says, "Well if you poofters aren't drinking beer, then neither will I."

They should all be drinking Diet Coke :icon_vomit:

 

[kook]

Actually, that is just a cut/paste of an american version too. Bud = "King of Beers", Coors claims to use water from the Rocky Mountains...

 

[Kingy]

I HATE HOW I ALWAYS GET CROWNIES FOR XMAS!!!!!..... I still have some from last year that im giving away this xmas

 

[Muggus]

I have come to the conclusion that there are many beer drinkers who actually dont like the taste of beer.
Their palates have been harnessed and bridled to only respond to the taste triggers of commercial beer and a bottle with a label is the first reassuring trigger

I totally agree with that, among alot of the other things mentioned in this thread.
I recently held a "brew night" in celebration of my birthday, where I invited around 20 of my friends around for to sample 50 different homebrews I had on offer, as well as a few good commercial beers. And I noticed alot of my mates who seem to drink beer religiously at the pub, mainly Tooheys Extra Dry, NEW etc, not only didn't seem to get into the homebrewed beers, but seemed just as repulsed by the commercial beers I had to offer too...and i'm talking along the lines LCPA, Samuel Adams Lager, Knappstein Lager, Schofferhofer Hefeweizen, and even Duvel...Oddly enough these same guys really go into my ginger beer like it was going out of fashion.
Of course I did have mates who do enjoy a good beer, and they had a blast.

 

[gregb]

I find the best thing to clear peoples preconceptions is to say: "It is a homebrew don't drink it if you don't like it." Highest flattery was all the'premium' 6-packs left in the fridge for the HB APA.

Cheers,
Greg