The Ross Method Did Not Work?

[Carboy]

Hi Everyone,

Last night for the first time I gave the "Ross Method" of forced carbonation a go. I followed the guidlines as posted here on AHB, and I believe it all went to plan i.e. pressure right, forced gas down throught the beer turret, rocked back and forth for 50 seconds, then rocked again until pressure dopped to 140-160.

When I did this, the first time, the pressure dropped to 120, so I followed the same procedure again, but this time for only 15 seconds, and this time the pressure stopped at 150.

My problem is... this morning I pulled a beer and it poured with a lovely head, but that disapeared quickly and on tasteing the beer it had little to no carbonation. The keg is presurised, so there's no leaks.

Does anyone have any ideas what I may have done wrong or how I can fix this :unsure:

Cheers
Carboy :icon_cheers:

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Are you carbing through the beer out post?

300kpa?

Any carb at all?

Cheers

 

[Carboy]

Are you carbing through the beer out post?

300kpa?

Any carb at all?

Cheers

Hi Cortez The Killer,

Yes, through the beer out. Yes to 300kpa.

As for carbonation... I got a nice head on the beer but that disappeared very quickly and some air bubbles on the inside of the glass, but basicaly its flat... and no carbonation bubbles through the beer. (I use Celli taps),

Cheers
C

 

[Ross]

Carboy,

You have over carbed. The 120 would probably have been fine, but you've gassed for another 15 seconds. You've given it nearly a 1/3rd more gas than it should have.
Pull it out the fridge, leave the releif valve open & let it warm up. Put back in the fridge tomorrow & hopefully it will be alright - If not - repeat.


Far better after the initial high pressure burst (30sec for ales, 45sec for lagers) to vent the keg once its settled & then turn your regulator to pouring pressure (70kpa ales, 110kpa lagers) & finish the rocking at the desired pouring pressure/carbonation level. This way, however long you rock for you CANNOT over carb. You will here the CO2 gurgling into the beer while it's still carbing & it will stop once equilibrium is reached.


Cheers Ross

 

[bradsbrew]

Did you leave the gas on over night?



Brad

 

[Carboy]

Carboy,

You have over carbed. The 120 would probably have been fine, but you've gassed for another 15 seconds. You've given it nearly a 1/3rd more gas than it should have.
Pull it out the fridge, leave the releif valve open & let it warm up. Put back in the fridge tomorrow & hopefully it will be alright - If not - repeat.


Far better after the initial high pressure burst (30sec for ales, 45sec for lagers) to vent the keg once its settled & then turn your regulator to pouring pressure (70kpa ales, 110kpa lagers) & finish the rocking at the desired pouring pressure/carbonation level. This way, however long you rock for you CANNOT over carb. You will here the CO2 gurgling into the beer while it's still carbing & it will stop once equilibrium is reached.


Cheers Ross

Hi Ross,

Thank you for your quick reply and info... Where you say to let the keg warm up? are we talking room temp, or just a few hours out of the fridge? and

When I pop the keg back in the fridge, I guess I close the relief valve.


Cheers
C :icon_cheers:

 

[Carboy]

Did you leave the gas on over night?



Brad

Hi Brad,

No everything was disconnected.

 

[Ross]

Hi Ross,

Thank you for your quick reply and info... Where you say to let the keg warm up? are we talking room temp, or just a few hours out of the fridge? and

When I pop the keg back in the fridge, I guess I close the relief valve.


Cheers
C :icon_cheers:

Up to room temp - warmer the better - beer gives up it's carbonation much faster warm. I also leave the valve open even while cooling, every bit helps - Quick & easy to add more gas if you remove too much, slow & a pita to remove if over carbed.

cheers Ross

 

[crundle]

Hi Ross,

Thank you for your quick reply and info... Where you say to let the keg warm up? are we talking room temp, or just a few hours out of the fridge? and

When I pop the keg back in the fridge, I guess I close the relief valve.


Cheers
C :icon_cheers:

Hi Carboy,

Your keg has too much pressure in it now, so it will need to be vented to bring it back to where it should be (around the 70-100 KPa mark). As it is cold now, the gas has a tendency to stay in solution inside the beer rather than escape, so this is why Ross said to remove it from the fridge, to let it warm up before venting so that more gas will come out of solution more rapidly.

You can do this, or you can also leave it in the fridge, and vent it over the course of a day or so, which will also bring your pressure down to correct serving pressure. To do this, make sure your keg is NOT connected to your CO2 cylinder, but you may have your beer line connected, so that you can pour a beer sample to see when the keg is at the correct pressure. Vent the keg by opening the relief valve until you hear no more gas escaping, then close the relief valve and leave the keg for a few hours. In this time, gas will come out of solution slowly to fill the gap left by the vented gas, thereby reducing the overall pressure of the keg. You will need to repeat this every few hours till you can pour a beer and it has a head AND bubbles. When it reaches this point, you will be safe to reconnect the CO2 cylinder to the keg again at serving pressure for your system, which can be worked out nicely by using the Crozdog xl spreadsheet (do a search for it).

The benefit of venting cold is that it will let you know when your system is in balance, as the beer is at the proper temperature the whole time.

We have all done this ourselves, so you are not alone. Let's get that gas vented!

Crundle

 

[crundle]

Just a quick thought which Ross prompted, while 300kpa and rocking will get a keg up to pressure quickly (around 40-50 seconds), I tend to do this for a bit less, around 30 seconds, and then set my reg to serving pressure of 80 kpa for my system, and then rock it for another 5 minutes. At this point, it is normally balanced, and cannot accept any more gas no matter how much I try, unless I lower the keg temperature or increase the reg pressure.

30 seconds on 300 kpa with a keg at 4 degrees celcius will probably get me 3/4 of the way to my target pressure, and then turning the pressure to serving pressure while rocking ensures that you cannot ever ever go past the balance point.

Crundle

 

[dicko]

Hi Cortez The Killer,

Yes, through the beer out. Yes to 300kpa.

As for carbonation... I got a nice head on the beer but that disappeared very quickly and some air bubbles on the inside of the glass, but basicaly its flat... and no carbonation bubbles through the beer. (I use Celli taps),

Cheers
C

Its not just a matter of a dirty glass is it?

Cheers

 

[Carboy]

I feel like I'm back in Primary school learning everything again.... but it's more fun this time

Thank you to one and all for your advice, I very much appreciate your time to help new brewers like myself.

You guys rock :super:

Cheers
Carboy :icon_cheers:

 

[Steve]

I feel like I'm back in Primary school learning everything again.... but it's more fun this time

Thank you to one and all for your advice, I very much appreciate your time to help new brewers like myself.

You guys rock :super:

Cheers
Carboy :icon_cheers:

Chill keg overnight
Connect line to gas in
Crank her up to 300
Lay keg on its side with the gas in turret at the bottom
Rock with foot for 30, 40, or 50 secs (depending on temp of beer)
Turn gas off
Rock with foot until reg goes down to, say 100
Disconnect line from keg
Leave keg for 10 mins in fridge
Pull pressure relief valve
Connect keg at pouring pressure
Burp it a couple of times
Job done!

Cheers
Steve

P.S. Why are you connecting to the beer out post?

 

[dmcke109]

Hey carboy without casting doubt on what other people are saying in this thread I might offer an alternative opinion. I always used the forced carb method. Sometimes for the first couple of days after using this method the beer, like yours, pours a nice head but doesn't really have any bubbles. However, I find that after about 3 days the bubbles appear and it's all good. In my opinion just give it a little bit of time and it will sort itself out. Like Ross and others have said you have prob overcarbed the beer but time heals all......

 

[dmcke109]

P.S. Why are you connecting to the beer out post?

It's what alot of the tutorials for this method tell you to do I believe Steve. Personally I don't worry about it and have never had an real dramas. Each to there own.

 

[benno1973]

Hey carboy without casting doubt on what other people are saying in this thread I might offer an alternative opinion. I always used the forced carb method. Sometimes for the first couple of days after using this method the beer, like yours, pours a nice head but doesn't really have any bubbles. However, I find that after about 3 days the bubbles appear and it's all good. In my opinion just give it a little bit of time and it will sort itself out. Like Ross and others have said you have prob overcarbed the beer but time heals all......

I agree. Ross and crew are probably right, but I find that I force carb and then in a few days it all comes good. I always assumed that I'd undercarbed (beer has a good head, but there's no bubbles in the beer? That would seem undercarbed to me?) and then if I leave it connected at 75kPa it comes up to carb in a few days. But then again, the vote seems to be for overcarbing, so who am I to doubt?

 

[crundle]

It can get confusing, and there are many ways to get to perfectly carbed beer. I still prefer (time permitting) to leave my keg connected at serving pressure only for 2 weeks. It can't get overcarbed this way, but sometimes I can't wait, and have adjusted the Ross method to my own equipment. Each of the ways presented in this thread will eventually get you to perfectly carbed beer.

Crundle

 

[Steve]

But then again, the vote seems to be for overcarbing, so who am I to doubt?

You dont want to overcarb it at all. That means you have to take the keg out of the fridge, leave the release valve open, let it warm back up to room temp and then start all over again. I also stuffed up my first force carb by overcarbing it. Ross was straight on the phone to help me fix it up :beer:
Cheers
Steve

 

[Steve]

I still prefer (time permitting) to leave my keg connected at serving pressure only for 2 weeks.

Jeezus! You have the patient of a saint. Mine are grain to brain in 6-7 days and keg empty another 6-7 days after that :lol:

 

[benno1973]

You dont want to overcarb it at all. That means you have to take the keg out of the fridge, leave the release valve open, let it warm back up to room temp and then start all over again. I also stuffed up my first force carb by overcarbing it. Ross was straight on the phone to help me fix it up :beer:
Cheers
Steve

Sorry, I meant that most peoples opinions were that carboy had overcarbed. I certainly wasn't advocating it!