The great Aussie patriot

[Black Devil Dog]

Can't beat a bit of Mony Python to lighten the mood of religous confrontation.

I bet one group didn't appreciate the humour though.

Edit: Actually 2 groups, the apologists and the antagonists.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Some 35 year old Monty Python

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j--0gzT2rk

 

[Dave70]

Lets face it, its a sad day when you cant even take in darts tournament without a riot breaking out (remember the old Wild World of Sports clips? One hundred and fourrrrrrrrrteeeee..)



Clearly fuckwitisim is on the rise.

*MODS*
Please nuke this post. Seems the ******* Ebola like adware virus on my home computer has somehow contaminated my posting.

Don't click on it comrades, its a c**t of a thing.

 

[AndrewQLD]

*MODS*
Please nuke this post. Seems the ******* Ebola like adware virus on my home computer has somehow contaminated my posting.

Don't click on it comrades, its a c**t of a thing.

Dave, the best thing to do in a situation like this is to report the post using the report button on the bottom right side of the post, we don't read every post or thread so it can take a while for us to know about a problem unless the report feature is used.
Manticle has removed the problem post so there should not be any further dramas.

Cheers
AndrewQLD

 

[Dave70]

The solidarity exhibited by other champions of 'free speech' seems somewhat limited to lip service at the moment. No ******* balls.
Unlike the publishers of Charlie Hebdo, who apparently carry theirs about in wheelbarrows.
Good on them.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

In a ball sizing comp these Pakistani women have got to be up there, over 5000 honour killings per year and on the increase according to the UN, then there are the other atrocities carried out in the name of religion.

 

[Airgead]

Yeah.... honour killings often get blamed on religion but when you look at the sociology of it, its more about things like perceived family honour and local customs. While Pakistan is majority muslim, India also has a huge problem with honour killings but within the Hindu parts of the country as well. Suttee (the ritual burning alive of the widow on the funeral pyre of the husband) was practiced by hindu and muslim alike, it depended more on where you were than what faith you were. Likewise things like the Burka which is seen is a muslim thing, is actually traditional garb for Pashtun tribes - its a tribal thing that has be co-opted by extremists who happen to be from that area.

Yes, they (honour killings) are a dreadful thing and must be stopped, but treating it as a religious problem will not be helpful. Tackling it as a problem of changing local customs is the way to go.

Islam (as embodied in the koran) says nothing about burkas, female circumcision and all the other things that are seen as a muslim problem. It may say a little about honour killings, but I seem to recall the bible saying a few things about killing wives for all sorts of things as well. They are local customs that the local extremists want to force on everyone because they can't separate their local stuff from what their religion actually says.

When you talk to religious scholars, most extremists (of all types) have a very poor grasp of the fundamental tenants of their faith. What they are doing is using religion as a tool to push their world view on others and that world view may be only very loosely linked to the religion they profess to follow.

Peace, love and mung beans.

 

[pcmfisher]

Yeah.... honour killings often get blamed on religion but when you look at the sociology of it, its more about things like perceived family honour and local customs. While Pakistan is majority muslim, India also has a huge problem with honour killings but within the Hindu parts of the country as well. Suttee (the ritual burning alive of the widow on the funeral pyre of the husband) was practiced by hindu and muslim alike, it depended more on where you were than what faith you were. Likewise things like the Burka which is seen is a muslim thing, is actually traditional garb for Pashtun tribes - its a tribal thing that has be co-opted by extremists who happen to be from that area.

Yes, they (honour killings) are a dreadful thing and must be stopped, but treating it as a religious problem will not be helpful. Tackling it as a problem of changing local customs is the way to go.

Islam (as embodied in the koran) says nothing about burkas, female circumcision and all the other things that are seen as a muslim problem. It may say a little about honour killings, but I seem to recall the bible saying a few things about killing wives for all sorts of things as well. They are local customs that the local extremists want to force on everyone because they can't separate their local stuff from what their religion actually says.

When you talk to religious scholars, most extremists (of all types) have a very poor grasp of the fundamental tenants of their faith. What they are doing is using religion as a tool to push their world view on others and that world view may be only very loosely linked to the religion they profess to follow.

Peace, love and mung beans.

That's the thing.
What anyone's religion actually says is up to them, and they are always right.....or wrong.

 

[sp0rk]

Some 35 year old Monty Python

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j--0gzT2rk

Or 3 year old "pythonesque" dramatization...

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Well spotted

 

[Dave70]

Yeah.... honour killings often get blamed on religion but when you look at the sociology of it, its more about things like perceived family honour and local customs. While Pakistan is majority muslim, India also has a huge problem with honour killings but within the Hindu parts of the country as well. Suttee (the ritual burning alive of the widow on the funeral pyre of the husband) was practiced by hindu and muslim alike, it depended more on where you were than what faith you were. Likewise things like the Burka which is seen is a muslim thing, is actually traditional garb for Pashtun tribes - its a tribal thing that has be co-opted by extremists who happen to be from that area.

Yes, they (honour killings) are a dreadful thing and must be stopped, but treating it as a religious problem will not be helpful. Tackling it as a problem of changing local customs is the way to go.

Islam (as embodied in the koran) says nothing about burkas, female circumcision and all the other things that are seen as a muslim problem. It may say a little about honour killings, but I seem to recall the bible saying a few things about killing wives for all sorts of things as well. They are local customs that the local extremists want to force on everyone because they can't separate their local stuff from what their religion actually says.

When you talk to religious scholars, most extremists (of all types) have a very poor grasp of the fundamental tenants of their faith. What they are doing is using religion as a tool to push their world view on others and that world view may be only very loosely linked to the religion they profess to follow.

Peace, love and mung beans.

Problem is you stand about as much chance of reversing attitudes toward barbaric cultural practices as you do religion. Its virtually a symbiotic relationship between the two.
I'd say the mindset that stones a women to death for adultery is pretty much the same the mindset that splashes hydrochloric acid in a woman's face because her dowry wasn't up to scratch - barbaric and primitive.

I'd argue also that fundamentalists / extremists are actually interpreting their religious texts in the spirit in which they written, and its the 'moderates' that filter and reconcile the teachings through their own morality and humanity. The irony being they were good people by nature, regardless if they were Jews, muslims, Christians or pastafarian.
Scholars may cry misinterpretation, but try reading something like Leviticus or At-Tawbah - chapter 9 in the koran - and imagine how it resonates in the mind of an individual who has is convinced these are the unalterable words of god.

Anyway.

 

[AHB_Admin]

I loved the placard "The only monotheistic religion."
Once more presents the age old question: "Are spaghetti and meatballs two separate deities or one omnipotent being?"

The bifecta? It's 2 entities, a single being. It's not that hard.

The solidarity exhibited by other champions of 'free speech' seems somewhat limited to lip service at the moment. No ******* balls.
Unlike the publishers of Charlie Hebdo, who apparently carry theirs about in wheelbarrows.
Good on them.

Huge balls.

Problem is you stand about as much chance of reversing attitudes toward barbaric cultural practices as you do religion. Its virtually a symbiotic relationship between the two.
I'd say the mindset that stones a women to death for adultery is pretty much the same the mindset that splashes hydrochloric acid in a woman's face because her dowry wasn't up to scratch - barbaric and primitive.

I'd argue also that fundamentalists / extremists are actually interpreting their religious texts in the spirit in which they written, and its the 'moderates' that filter and reconcile the teachings through their own morality and humanity. The irony being they were good people by nature, regardless if they were Jews, muslims, Christians or pastafarian.
Scholars may cry misinterpretation, but try reading something like Leviticus or At-Tawbah - chapter 9 in the koran - and imagine how it resonates in the mind of an individual who has is convinced these are the unalterable words of god.

Anyway.

I think that's fair considering the book is based on the speeches of a warlord.

 

[Dave70]

Gotta admit, a warlord soaring through the clouds on a winged horse is pretty awesome, as goes the story of the prophets flight from Mecca to Jersulam.
Suspiciously however the creature bears a striking resemblance to the ancient Greek beast Pegasus..

*cough..ripoff..cough*

 

[Airgead]

Problem is you stand about as much chance of reversing attitudes toward barbaric cultural practices as you do religion. Its virtually a symbiotic relationship between the two.
I'd say the mindset that stones a women to death for adultery is pretty much the same the mindset that splashes hydrochloric acid in a woman's face because her dowry wasn't up to scratch - barbaric and primitive.

True. Difficult but not impossible - if you tackle the root cause rather than attacking something peripheral. If you take British attitudes to slavery as an example, within a very short time, 50 years or so, Britain went from the global leader of the slave trade to outlawing slavery and the slave trade throughout the empire. Public attitudes went from considering the throwing overboard of 600 or so manacled slaves into the ocean in order to claim insurance on a lost cargo (yes, happened... several times) as being perfectly legitimate business practice to a general abhorrence for the whole practice of slavery.

In India, while there is still a problem with female infanticide in rural areas, in urban areas, the problem is nowhere near as bad. As people move our of horribly impoverished existences where male children are needed to work the fields and females are a burden because of dowry requirements, and move into urban environments where females can earn really good money working in offices, female children are increasingly seen as an asset rather than a burden. Still a long way to go but you can see attitudes changing. The real solution is not to attack islam or the hindu faith, but to work on ways to lift people out of poverty. The caste system (often linked to the Hindu faith) is slowly breaking down as well. India has untouchables as members of parliament which would have been unthinkable 20 or 30 years ago. An untouchable (from the rat catcher caste) is chief minister of Bihar.

Religion is blamed for many bad things. Many bad things are done in the name of religion, but in reality, religion is just a convenient hook to hang other prejudices on. The soviets banned religion but still continued being horrible to jews and gypsies and other minorities - things formerly done in the name of religion, now done in the name of other things. If you attack religion without tackling the underlying cause, all people will do is find another hook to hang things on.

Cultures do shift over time. Attitudes change.Reducing poverty, promoting acceptance and tolerance help them change in the right directions.

Peace, love and be excellent to each other.

 

[pcmfisher]

Cultures and religions do change over time.
Look at the Catholics. They were bought kicking and screaming into the 21st century. They and most, if not all, religions still have a long way to go.

I don't know how you go about changing attitudes and reducing poverty of many Muslim countries that are social, economic and cultural disaster areas especially if mobs like ISIS have their way in keeping everyone 700 years behind the times.

Guns?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I agree with the fact that atrocities committed not only against women but men has come from cultural morality issues, but more often than not it is backed up by fundamentalists religious beliefs. What the Hindu and Sikhs did was purely from cultural beliefs not what their Holy scriptures advised, but the radical Islamists purposely misinterpret the Quran to justify their acts of cruelty, even with the case of apostasy the Quran doesn't say to go out and kill anyone who leaves the faith, what it does say is those who do leave the faith will be judged on their death by God, but they have to interpret apostasy as undermining the Islamic faith and is punishable by death.
Even if there was never any religion it wouldn't stop any of the troubles of the world,throughout our whole evolution we have marked out our borders and protected them, plus we are programed to be wary of anyone that seems different,we only have to watch how small children pick up on a child that seems different, but thankfully we grow out of that.
Humans are an aggressive race driven by greed and power, it would be nice to all live together in peace and harmony,but is it achievable,one can only hope.

 

[newguy]

wide eyed and legless, on 14 Jan 2015 - 7:00 PM, said:

[snip]...we are programed to be wary of anyone that seems different,we only have to watch how small children pick up on a child that seems different, but thankfully we grow out of that.

The female of the species is hard wired to mix genes. A friend I went through university with had a friend (a Canadian) that studied in Australia for a few years. Upon his return, in a bar, he said to my friend "watch this." He then flipped on his Aussie accent. Within minutes he was surrounded by women that were hanging off of him.

But I agree, with guys, it's more common to be suspicious of anyone different, particularly other males.

 

[Dave70]

Cultures and religions do change over time.
Look at the Catholics. They were bought kicking and screaming into the 21st century. They and most, if not all, religions still have a long way to go.

I don't know how you go about changing attitudes and reducing poverty of many Muslim countries that are social, economic and cultural disaster areas especially if mobs like ISIS have their way in keeping everyone 700 years behind the times.

Guns?

Until they empower women politically and socially, then boot out these cloistered, sexually repressed, corrupt theocratic tribal warmongers running the show, expect countries like Afghanistan and parts of north Africa to continue to rot as modernity continues to pass them by.

Girl power.

 

[Airgead]

I think you mean Girrrrrrrl Power.