Style Of The Week 27/2/08 - Weizenbock

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Stuster

Big mash up
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I though this week we could talk about a beer that's big but still dangerously drinkable (as we ISBers found out thanks to Oldbugman :icon_cheers: ). Weizenbock is a dark wheat beer brewed with a bit more oomph, usually up around 7-8% alcohol or even more. It's the weizen brewer's answer to a heft doppelbock and BJCP style 15C.

So any recipes out there? Grains? Hops? Yeast? Fermentation tips? How long maturing? Kits and bits options? Any commercial weizenbocks you like/can get here?

Give us all you've got so we can brew and drink some great beer. :chug:

15C. Weizenbock

Aroma: Rich, bock-like melanoidins and bready malt combined with a powerful aroma of dark fruit (plums, prunes, raisins or grapes). Moderate to strong phenols (most commonly vanilla and/or clove) add complexity, and some banana esters may also be present. A moderate aroma of alcohol is common, although never solventy. No hop aroma, diacetyl or DMS.

Appearance: Dark amber to dark, ruby brown in color. A very thick, moussy, long-lasting light tan head is characteristic. The high protein content of wheat impairs clarity in this traditionally unfiltered style, although the level of haze is somewhat variable. The suspended yeast sediment (which should be roused before drinking) also contributes to the cloudiness.

Flavor: A complex marriage of rich, bock-like melanoidins, dark fruit, spicy clove-like phenols, light banana and/or vanilla, and a moderate wheat flavor. The malty, bready flavor of wheat is further enhanced by the copious use of Munich and/or Vienna malts. May have a slightly sweet palate, and a light chocolate character is sometimes found (although a roasted character is inappropriate). A faintly tart character may optionally be present. Hop flavor is absent, and hop bitterness is low. The wheat, malt, and yeast character dominate the palate, and the alcohol helps balance the finish. Well-aged examples may show some sherry-like oxidation as a point of complexity. No diacetyl or DMS.

Mouthfeel: Medium-full to full body. A creamy sensation is typical, as is the warming sensation of substantial alcohol content. The presence of Munich and/or Vienna malts also provide an additional sense of richness and fullness. Moderate to high carbonation. Never hot or solventy.

Overall Impression: A strong, malty, fruity, wheat-based ale combining the best flavors of a dunkelweizen and the rich strength and body of a bock.

History: Aventinus, the world's oldest top-fermented wheat doppelbock, was created in 1907 at the Weisse Brauhaus in Munich using the 'Mthode Champenoise' with fresh yeast sediment on the bottom. It was Schneider's creative response to bottom-fermenting doppelbocks that developed a strong following during these times.

Comments: A dunkel-weizen beer brewed to bock or doppelbock strength. Now also made in the Eisbock style as a specialty beer. Bottles may be gently rolled or swirled prior to serving to rouse the yeast.

Ingredients: A high percentage of malted wheat is used (by German law must be at least 50%, although it may contain up to 70%), with the remainder being Munich- and/or Vienna-type barley malts. A traditional decoction mash gives the appropriate body without cloying sweetness. Weizen ale yeasts produce the typical spicy and fruity character. Too warm or too cold fermentation will cause the phenols and esters to be out of balance and may create off-flavors. A small amount of noble hops are used only for bitterness.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.064 - 1.080+ 1.015 - 1.022 15 - 30 12 - 25 6.5 - 8.0+%

Commercial Examples: Schneider Aventinus, Schneider Aventinus Eisbock, Erdinger Pikantus, Mahr's Der Weisse Bock, Pyramid Weizenbock, DeGroen's Weizenbock
 
I brewed the version given by Longshot winner Rodney Kibzey on the Jamil show and it reminds me a lot of Aventinus :chug: IMHO a very tasty beer and Ill be bringing along a bottle to this weeks BABBs meeting for a bit of feedback.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/Jamil12-03-07.mp3

Weizenbock

Brew Type: All Grain Date: 1/01/2008
Style: Weizenbock Brewer: Jye
Batch Size: 23.00 L Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 30.08 L Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 % Equipment:
Actual Efficiency: 79.7 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.40 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 52.7 %
2.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 38.7 %
0.25 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 3.9 %
0.15 kg Caramunich III (Weyermann) (71.0 SRM) Grain 2.3 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt Pale (Bairds) (329.9 SRM) Grain 2.3 %

15.00 gm Magnum [13.10%] (60 min) Hops 19.0 IBU

5.00 gm Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc
5.00 gm 5.2 (Mash 90.0 min) Misc

1 Pkgs Weizen (Fermentis #WB-06) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.070 SG (1.064-1.085 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.070 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.017 SG (1.015-1.022 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Color: 14.4 SRM (12.0-25.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 19.0 IBU (15.0-30.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 1.1 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 7.0 % (6.5-8.5 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 7.2 %

IMG_2005.jpg
 
I can get the Pikantus by Erdinger in Newcastle. As suggested, it's too easy to drink. :icon_cheers:

I made a nice Weizenbock (or Dunkelweizen Doppelbock, if you will) for the HAG Xmas case last year. My recipe was based on Jamil's Aventinus clone...recipe here.

Reviews here and here. Photo here..

The style is very drinkable and dark + malty like a doppelbock. I think the term for this is "balance".

Les out :p
 
I brewed the version given by Longshot winner Rodney Kibzey on the Jamil show and it reminds me a lot of Aventinus :chug:

View attachment 17934

This is such an awesome style. Coincidentally I've been planning brewing a similar recipe to this for my next.

Jye, can you tell me what your impression of the sweetness is? Do you have notes of your apparent attenuation?

How were the esters / phenolics? What was your fermentation temperature?

Can you try and describe the flavour profile?

Sorry for the 100 questions.

Cheers,
Scott
 
If you can hold out until Friday I can give you mine and other brewers impressions.

It was pitched onto a WB07 yeast cake and fermented between 17-18C. Gravity dropped from 70 to 15, so about 78% attenuation and there definitely isnt any sweetness.
 
If you can hold out until Friday I can give you mine and other brewers impressions.

Mate, I can hold out. Thanks for the info. Your comment on sweetness is interesting given the 0.27 BU:GU. I guess that high attenuation and resultant alcohol has taken care of most of the sweetness.

Cheers,
Scott
 
i made a good one of these a few years back based on the protz and wheeler aventinus recipe. quite a high FG but it was really tasty. i double decocted the bugger with a ferulic rest. and pitched at 14, fermented at 19.


Batch size 14 liters
Volume Boiled 17.5 liters
Mash Efficiency 69 %
3 kg. German Wheat Malt Light info
.750 kg. Hoepfner Munich
.710 kg. German 2-row Pils info
.540 kg. Weyermann CaraMunich I info
35 g. Hallertau Hersbruck (Pellets, 2.9 %AA) boiled 60 min. info
15 g. Hallertau Hersbruck (Pellets, 2.9 %AA) boiled 20 min. info
Yeast : White Labs WLP380 Hefeweizen IV Ale info

Original Gravity 1.074
Terminal Gravity 1.020
Color 13.65 SRM
Bitterness 24.2 IBU
Alcohol (%volume) 7.1 %


as for commercial varieties, apart from the usual suspects aventinus and pikantus, weihenstephan vitus has been turning up lately at camperdown cellars - a nice example of a paler and lighter-bodied weizenbock.
 
I made a simple weizenbock that knocked me silly on New Year's Eve...

55% Weyermann pale wheat
35% Weyermann pilsner
10% CaraMunich III

OG 1.070

Hallertau at 90 mins and 15 mins to about 15IBU

Wyeast 3638 Bavarian wheat.

This beer was dangerous. At about 7.5%ABV and all those lovely esters and phenols, it was irresistible!

The best I've tried, though, comes from Dachsbru in Bavaria.
I had the pleasure of meeting one of the brewers in Berlin on our "bock night". He brought some samples of his product.

WJ
 
Some good looking recipes there. And so different. NM, your recipe is much lighter in colour than the other ones, and probably more like the colour of Oldbugman's. A run of different weizenbocks? :icon_drool2: :icon_drunk:
 
Well here is the one stu is talking about, and was forced to drink a few mugs at an ISB day. It was brewed before the AHB sydney pubcrawl 07. It was my first no chill beer and picked up a 2nd at bathurst, 1st at state, 3rd at nationals. The yeast was pitched straight from the vial, no starter built. OG of 1.080 FG of 1.019, 8.1% in the keg, yummo.

It was very drinkable. I could down 3 or 4 glasses of it without feeling the effects, until I stood up. I'll definatly be making this one again possibly with slight tweaks.



Code:
Darth Weizen



A ProMash Recipe Report



BJCP Style and Style Guidelines

-------------------------------



15-C  German Wheat and Rye Beer, Weizenbock



Min OG:  1.064   Max OG:  1.096

Min IBU:	15   Max IBU:	30

Min Clr:	12   Max Clr:	25  Color in SRM, Lovibond



Recipe Specifics

----------------



Batch Size (L):		  21.50	Wort Size (L):	 21.50

Total Grain (kg):		 7.18

Anticipated OG:		  1.080	Plato:			 19.27

Anticipated SRM:		  14.6

Anticipated IBU:		  28.1

Brewhouse Efficiency:	   75 %

Wort Boil Time:			 60	Minutes



Pre-Boil Amounts

----------------



Evaporation Rate:	  16.00	Percent Per Hour

Pre-Boil Wort Size:   25.60	L

Pre-Boil Gravity:	  1.067	SG		  16.36  Plato



Formulas Used

-------------





Color Formula Used:   Morey

Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager







Grain/Extract/Sugar



   %	 Amount	 Name						  Origin		Potential SRM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 55.7	 4.00 kg.  JW Wheat Malt				 Australia		1.039	  2

 21.7	 1.56 kg.  Pilsener					  Germany		1.038	  2

 17.0	 1.22 kg.  Munich Malt I				 Germany		1.037	  7

  3.6	 0.26 kg.  Caraaroma					Germany		1.034	150

  1.5	 0.11 kg.  Melanoidin Malt			   Germany		1.033	 30

  0.4	 0.03 kg.  Chocolate Malt				America		1.029	350



Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.





Hops



   Amount	 Name							  Form	Alpha  IBU  Boil Time

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 60.00 g.	 Hersbrucker					   Pellet   3.10  24.8  60 min.

 30.00 g.	 Hersbrucker					   Pellet   3.10   3.3  15 min.





Yeast

-----



White Labs WLP380 Hefeweizen IV Ale
 
yeah i think it was much lighter than aventinus, but i liked it anyway. i shouldve used caramunich II or III at the same ratio , wouldve got a touch more dark fruity flavours too. i am not really a fan of chocolate malty weizenbocks though - IMO most "new world " weizenbocks i've tried (Limburg, Red Hill, Redoak, etc) have been specialty malt soup without enough melanoidins and real wheatiness.
 
Can you try and describe the flavour profile?

Cheers,
Scott


Scott, here are a few notes I wrote down before our club meeting last night, maybe some of the guys that tried it last night will jump in with their impressions.

Aroma - Big clove hit from the use of wb06 and background warm alcohol. I like this yeast in dark wheaties and think the clove/tartness is just right if fermented low.

Flavour - Wheat flavour with slight chocolate and dark fruits. Balanced and no real bitterness, malty and smooth from suspended yeast.

Mouthfeel - Medium body and feels very creamy, this is could be due to low carbonation for style. Warm alcohol that matches the aroma.

Overall - Would be nice to have a touch of vanilla but I am still greatly enjoying this beer.
 
you guys are all using pale wheat malt. Try some dark malted wheat, choc wheat and caramel wheat. (see Craftbrewer)
 
HE-111


Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU When
German Dark Wheat Malt 4.000 kg 53.7 % 7.0 In Mash/Steeped
German Munich Malt 3.000 kg 40.3 % 4.4 In Mash/Steeped
German Caramel Wheat Malt 0.250 kg 3.4 % 3.0 In Mash/Steeped
German Chocolate Wheat Malt 0.200 kg 2.7 % 20.2 In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
German Tettnang 3.9 % 50 g 16.7 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
German Hallertauer Mittlefruh 3.9 % 28 g 0.0 Loose Whole Hops At turn off
German Hallertauer Mittlefruh 3.9 % 13 g 0.0 Loose Whole Hops At turn off

Yeast
WB-06

This is my dunkleweizen but you get the idea. No pils is this baby ;)
 
:icon_offtopic:

Has anyone taken this to the next level and made a weizen eisbock? :icon_drool2:
 
Just a quick note for this style.
Never get into a drinking game with friends, steins and a keg of Weizenbock on a sunny day.

photo-1194.jpg


I was legless after 2-3 steins and whoever said "you don't get hangovers from home brew" you are so so so wrong....
 
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