Style Of The Week 19/4/10 - Roggenbier

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Stuster

Big mash up
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So this week we're looking at a style that revolves around a great ingredient - rye. There's been a fair amount of talk on the forum about rye and a bit on this style but it's always good to have more. :)

Basically, it's like a dunkleweizen but with rye included.

Links
AHB thread
BYO
Jamil Show
All about Beer article on rye beers including Roggenbier


So what is your approach to the style? Grain bill? Hops? How to do it with kits and bits? Yeast? Fermentation temp? Drink straight away or condition how?

Tell us all you know so we can make yummy beer. :chug:


From BJCP.

15D. Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)

Aroma: Light to moderate spicy rye aroma intermingled with light to moderate weizen yeast aromatics (spicy clove and fruity esters, either banana or citrus). Light noble hops are acceptable. Can have a somewhat acidic aroma from rye and yeast. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Light coppery-orange to very dark reddish or coppery-brown color. Large creamy off-white to tan head, quite dense and persistent (often thick and rocky). Cloudy, hazy appearance.

Flavor: Grainy, moderately-low to moderately-strong spicy rye flavor, often having a hearty flavor reminiscent of rye or pumpernickel bread. Medium to medium-low bitterness allows an initial malt sweetness (sometimes with a bit of caramel) to be tasted before yeast and rye character takes over. Low to moderate weizen yeast character (banana, clove, and sometimes citrus), although the balance can vary. Medium-dry, grainy finish with a tangy, lightly bitter (from rye) aftertaste. Low to moderate noble hop flavor acceptable, and can persist into aftertaste. No diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-full body. High carbonation. Light tartness optional.

Overall Impression: A dunkelweizen made with rye rather than wheat, but with a greater body and light finishing hops.

Comments: American-style rye beers should be entered in the American Rye category (6D). Other traditional beer styles with enough rye added to give a noticeable rye character should be entered in the Specialty Beer category (23). Rye is a huskless grain and is difficult to mash, often resulting in a gummy mash texture that is prone to sticking. Rye has been characterized as having the most assertive flavor of all cereal grains. It is inappropriate to add caraway seeds to a roggenbier (as some American brewers do); the rye character is traditionally from the rye grain only.

History: A specialty beer originally brewed in Regensburg, Bavaria as a more distinctive variant of a dunkelweizen using malted rye instead of malted wheat.

Ingredients: Malted rye typically constitutes 50% or greater of the grist (some versions have 60-65% rye). Remainder of grist can include pale malt, Munich malt, wheat malt, crystal malt and/or small amounts of debittered dark malts for color adjustment. Weizen yeast provides distinctive banana esters and clove phenols. Light usage of noble hops in bitterness, flavor and aroma. Lower fermentation temperatures accentuate the clove character by suppressing ester formation. Decoction mash commonly used (as with weizenbiers).
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.046 1.056
IBUs: 10 20 FG: 1.010 1.014
SRM: 14 19 ABV: 4.5 6%

Commercial Examples: Paulaner Roggen (formerly Thurn und Taxis, no longer imported into the US), Brgerbru Wolznacher Roggenbier
 
Smurt's has brewed his Golden Ale with Rye iirc. And he is a big fan of Rye.

I also love what Rye can bring to a beer. :icon_drunk:

I have 2kg of Rye in the shed waiting for an appropriate brew, brewery has been getting tweaked of late, with little brewing happening!

Also of note:
Crushing the Rye should be done separately on a finer crush as its a smaller grain.

Edit: speeling.
 
First time using rye was after tasting Boilerboys American Rye IPA. So i brewed his recipe. AG #58. Can't believe i resisted for so long.

I starting using it in my golden ale instead of wheat and wont be going back to wheat!

Next up is a roggen. I brewed a dunkelweizen as an almost test batch for a roggen. Am liking it so will sub in rye instead of wheat.

Have had several PMs to Yardy about rye usage, treatment etc so i cant wait for him to pop up with his 2 c. And of course Tony Roggen thread is bookmarked!

I crush rye on a finer setting to get as much out of it as possible. I mash at 66/67 for the golden ale/IPA but will be lowering that as the % of rye increases.

This is what i am thinking for the first batch of roggenbier. Comments?

3.25 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 54.17 %
2.25 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 37.50 %
0.35 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (150.0 EBC) Grain 5.83 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 2.50 %
30.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 13.7 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Bavarian Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3638) Yeast-Wheat

22L
OG 1.052
IBU 17
EBC 39
 
I have brewed the Amal Turcyn Sheppac's (sp?) recipe from Zymurgy and loved it.

Watching this thread with interest, as I have a 25 kg bag of rye malt at home.
 
This is what i am thinking for the first batch of roggenbier. Comments?

3.25 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 54.17 %
2.25 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 37.50 %
0.35 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (150.0 EBC) Grain 5.83 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 2.50 %
30.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 13.7 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Bavarian Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3638) Yeast-Wheat

22L
OG 1.052
IBU 17
EBC 39

missed this one until now,

that's a nice looking recipe Doc, keen to hear how it turned out with the caramel and choc wheat B) , 17 IBU is right on the money imo.

i'm planning to brew my Schwarz next week with part of the Munich subbed for Rye, maybe only about 20% or so but it's a start :)

Cheers

Dave
 
3.25 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 54.17 %
2.25 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 37.50 %
0.35 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (150.0 EBC) Grain 5.83 %
0.15 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 2.50 %
30.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 13.7 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Bavarian Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3638) Yeast-Wheat

22L
OG 1.052
IBU 17
EBC 39


:icon_drool2:

I haven't even made a 50% rye beer yet and already i want to take on that challenge!

Great links Yardy.

go for it Doc :icon_chickcheers:

didn't you brew the above roggen ?

cheers

Dave
 
Not yet. Kegs are full, 2 beers conditioning and a couple of lagers/kolschs to knock out while the weather is cool.

That and the fact i dont have any rye malt or weizen yeast :lol:

EDIT - spelling
 
Finally brewing a Roggenbier tomorrow.

WLP300 starter is firing away.

3.00 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 55.56 %
2.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 37.04 %
0.30 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (200.0 EBC) Grain 5.56 %
0.10 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (1100.0 EBC) Grain 1.85 %
15.00 gm Perle [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 16.8 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
5.00 gm Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) Yeast-Wheat

20L
OG 1.051
IBU 17
EBC 41

A little unsure as to whether that is too much caramel rye. Anyone?

Not sure about the water chemistry for this one. Probably just some CaSO4 and CaCl2 to get the Ca level up to 90-100 ppm.

Doing a double decoction (52/63/70) with a decoction mashout. Rice hulls on standby but i am hoping that if i keep the sparge rate up high enough it wont get stuck. The last time i did a decoction using rice hulls (dunkelweizen) i burnt them so wont be adding any until something goes pear shaped.

Rye + decoction = :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:
 
Finally brewing a Roggenbier tomorrow.

WLP300 starter is firing away.

3.00 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 55.56 %
2.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 37.04 %
0.30 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (200.0 EBC) Grain 5.56 %
0.10 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (1100.0 EBC) Grain 1.85 %
15.00 gm Perle [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 16.8 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
5.00 gm Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) Yeast-Wheat

20L
OG 1.051
IBU 17
EBC 41

A little unsure as to whether that is too much caramel rye. Anyone?

Not sure about the water chemistry for this one. Probably just some CaSO4 and CaCl2 to get the Ca level up to 90-100 ppm.

Doing a double decoction (52/63/70) with a decoction mashout. Rice hulls on standby but i am hoping that if i keep the sparge rate up high enough it wont get stuck. The last time i did a decoction using rice hulls (dunkelweizen) i burnt them so wont be adding any until something goes pear shaped.

Rye + decoction = :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

Tried this one a few times. On tap directly after being kegged, at the local ABC beer presentation and also was lucky enough to get a stubbie of this one to take home. It's not often that I drink a beer that changes the way I look at beer differently. My first homebrews, those first few rogue beers from the wheaty etc and the 10 min IPAs. I can safely add this beer to the 'beers that changed my perception on beer'...it was just sooo damn good. I will be buying a sack of rye soon and will have to knock out something similar to this, as I am hooked on rye thanks to Smurto and this beer. Will also have to give a 100% rye beer a go as well...

Have to add as well, a few of the BJCP boys tried this and were hard pressed to knock 1 or 2 points off it...48/50 is pretty outstanding!

Cheers
Phil
 
Yeah that roggen was a rip snorter.
 
It was definitely different I'll say that. Very nice, but unlike anything I've ever tasted in my life...
 
Wy Forbidden Fruit goes awesome in a roggen... or 100% rye.... :icon_drool2:
 
mmmmmmmm about to smack a pack of FF yeast for a wit, and i have 5kg of rye just itching to gum up my mash tun :)

good call!
 
I have one in the mash tun now and oh dear............... :unsure:

4kg rye
4kg dark wheat
4kg Pils
250g choc wheat.

I ran the rye through the mill 3 times to really get it fine to pull all its oily goodness and its worked very well.

Currently struggling to extract anything from a 50 liter volume mash that looks like its full of engine oil :blink:

this is going to take hours...............
 
I have one in the mash tun now and oh dear............... :unsure:

4kg rye
4kg dark wheat
4kg Pils
250g choc wheat.

I ran the rye through the mill 3 times to really get it fine to pull all its oily goodness and its worked very well.

Currently struggling to extract anything from a 50 liter volume mash that looks like its full of engine oil :blink:

this is going to take hours...............

**** mate, what were you thinking, my 2 rules for roggens are a coarse crush and sparge/lauter hot, good luck :)
 
you know what they say........ no pain no gain, and i just cant get the texture im after from a roggen with a course crush.

This one has finnaly finnished the boil..... took me 5.5 hours to get it mashed and boiled.

Its smelling and tasting awsome now that its cooled and has that thin and dry, but oily slick feel to it in the mouth.

Now to introduce it to my good friend 3068 :)
 
The bloody thing wouldnt even come out of the kettle :eek:

I think a Roggen is a beer ever AG brewer should make, with fine crushed rye, to experience just how much fun it is.

Its a bitch to make, but when you get it in the glass and taste it, and feel its amazing texture in the mouoth, its all worth it!
 
Thank god for the blow off tube...........and a 13 liter pot to contain the boil over.

3 to 4 liters lost!

Blowofftube1728x1152.jpg
 

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