Style Of The Week 18/4/07 - Classic American Pilsner

[Stuster]

Well, last time we looked at Bohemian Pilsners, so I thought we could finish off the category with another version, Classic American Pilsner.

A couple of links.

Some clown's ideas on the style
Jamil Z's radio show on CAPs

So, what can you tell us about brewing this style? Grains? Hops? Yeast? Do you do a cereal mash? Is it possible with kits 'n' bits? Fermentation tips? Any commercial examples that are worth trying?

Tell us all you know so we can make better beer. :chug:

From the BCJP site

2C. Classic American Pilsner

Aroma: Low to medium grainy, corn-like or sweet maltiness may be evident (although rice-based beers are more neutral). Medium to moderately high hop aroma, often classic noble hops. Clean lager character, with no fruitiness or diacetyl. Some DMS is acceptable.

Appearance: Yellow to deep gold color. Substantial, long lasting white head. Bright clarity.

Flavor: Moderate to moderately high maltiness similar in character to the Continental Pilsners but somewhat lighter in intensity due to the use of up to 30% flaked maize (corn) or rice used as an adjunct. Slight grainy, corn-like sweetness from the use of maize with substantial offsetting hop bitterness. Rice-based versions are crisper, drier, and often lack corn-like flavors. Medium to high hop flavor from noble hops (either late addition or first-wort hopped). Medium to high hop bitterness, which should not be coarse nor have a harsh aftertaste. No fruitiness or diacetyl. Should be smooth and well-lagered.

Mouthfeel: Medium body and rich, creamy mouthfeel. Medium to high carbonation levels.

Overall Impression: A substantial Pilsner that can stand up to the classic European Pilsners, but exhibiting the native American grains and hops available to German brewers who initially brewed it in the USA. Refreshing, but with the underlying malt and hops that stand out when compared to other modern American light lagers. Maize lends a distinctive grainy sweetness. Rice contributes a crisper, more neutral character.

History: A version of Pilsner brewed in the USA by immigrant German brewers who brought the process and yeast with them when they settled in America. They worked with the ingredients that were native to America to create a unique version of the original Pilsner. This style died out after Prohibition but was resurrected as a home-brewed style by advocates of the hobby.

Comments: The classic American Pilsner was brewed both pre-Prohibition and post-Prohibition with some differences. OGs of 1.050-1.060 would have been appropriate for pre-Prohibition beers while gravities dropped to 1.044-1.048 after Prohibition. Corresponding IBUs dropped from a pre-Prohibition level of 30-40 to 25-30 after Prohibition.

Ingredients: Six-row barley with 20% to 30% flaked maize to dilute the excessive protein levels. Native American hops such as Clusters, traditional continental noble hops, or modern noble crosses (Ultra, Liberty,Crystal) are also appropriate. Modern American hops such as Cascade are inappropriate. Water with a high mineral content can lead to an inappropriate coarseness in flavor and harshness in aftertaste.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.044 - 1.060 1.010 - 1.015 25 - 40 3 - 6 4.5 - 6%

Commercial Examples: Occasional brewpub and microbrewery specials

 

[Stuster]

Bump. Anybody brewed one of these?

 

[Aussie Claret]

Ross, has brewed a couple and they have been great. C'mon Ross how about providing some of the recipes.
AC

 

[RobW]

I made the "some clown's" recipe earlier this year with the cereal mash, Perle & Saaz and using SAFLager and was happy with the result. Currently have another one fermenting with WYeast 2007.
Fingers crossed B)

 

[devo]

Bump. Anybody brewed one of these?

I was reading over a recipe today and contemplating doing one of theses soonish.

 

[geoffi]

Here's my recipe. I have my second version of this lagering now. The first was a ripper, so I'm really looking forward to this one.

Instead of flaked maize I used popped popping corn. 900g of it is a shitload to look at, but it dissolves into the mash almost instantly.

I tried a double-decoction mash. It was a pain in the arse, so next time I'll do a single infusion and see if there's any real difference. If not, bye-bye dd.

Category Pilsner
Subcategory Classic American Pilsner
Recipe Type All Grain
Batch Size 21 liters
Volume Boiled 25 liters
Mash Efficiency 75 %
Total Grain/Extract 4.40 kg.
Total Hops 135.0 g.

3.3 kg. German 2-row Pils
0.2 kg. Melanoidin Malt
0.9 kg. Corn Flaked
60 g. Tettnanger (Whole, 3.5 %AA) boiled 60 min.
40 g. Tettnanger (Whole, 3.5 %AA) boiled 20 min.
35 g. Hallertau (Whole, 4.50 %AA) boiled 5 min.
Yeast : WYeast 2278 Czech Pils info

Original Gravity 1.047 1.044 - 1.060 100 %
Terminal Gravity 1.011 1.010 - 1.015 100 %
Color 4.42 SRM 3.00 - 6.00 SRM 100 %
Bitterness 34.5 IBU 25.00 - 40.00 IBU 100 %
Alcohol (%volume) 4.7 % 4.50 - 6.00 % 100 %

 

[warrenlw63]

I made the "some clown's" recipe earlier this year with the cereal mash, Perle & Saaz and using SAFLager and was happy with the result. Currently have another one fermenting with WYeast 2007.
Fingers crossed

:lol: My nose is red with embarassment.

Haven't done one for a while. Rob's revival may have changed my tune though. They're a great session beer. Not sure if I'll do another cereal mash again. While it gives a great result it's also a lot of arseing around. Flaked maize sounds a far more convenient option for a lazy type like me.

John Wayne Gacy -

 

[Stuster]

John Wayne Gacy -

Gulp. I can call you Mr. Killer Clown if you'd prefer. :unsure:

I'm feeling fairly masochistic this year so I might end up doing the cereal mash after all. Though I do have a popcorn maker. How long would it take to pop 1kg of popcorn?

I'm probably going to be using a clean ale yeast (likely to be 1007). How do you think I'd go making CACA with that? Mash high?

 

[jimmyjack]

Rossco, first turned me on to these, I love em. Here is my recipe

4.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.6 SRM) Grain 75.5 %
1.00 kg Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 18.9 %
0.30 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.7 %
20.00 gm B Saaz [7.00%] (60 min) Hops 14.9 IBU
30.00 gm B Saaz [7.00%] (10 min) Hops 8.1 IBU
40.00 gm B Saaz [7.00%] (3 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
22.00 L Rain water Water
1 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

Really enjoyed this one.Next time I will leave out the Cara pils. My advice is to do a big batch as it will not last long

Cheers, JJ

 

[warrenlw63]

Gulp. I can call you Mr. Killer Clown if you'd prefer.

I'm feeling fairly masochistic this year so I might end up doing the cereal mash after all. Though I do have a popcorn maker. How long would it take to pop 1kg of popcorn?

I'm probably going to be using a clean ale yeast (likely to be 1007). How do you think I'd go making CACA with that? Mash high?

Hey Stuster isn't that a CAA. Classic American Alt? :lol:

Just a hint too... I did a CACA earlier last year. Mash wound up tossed in the bin. Make sure you use a malt with high enzymatic (sp?) strength... I used Powells Trad. Ale Malt. With the 20% maize adjunct it just wouldn't convert in the mash. <_<

Wound up in a mess trying to run the whole thing off. Polenta portion just sunk to the bottom of the mash like a stone and blocked up the plumbing in the mashtun. Had to pull the thing to bits and unblock it with a chopstick.

As for your mash temp? I'd go between 65-67 degrees.

Warren -

 

[Tony]

I have made one.

Was fantastic, did a double decoction and used WLP833 german bock yeast.

It was light baddied with a fantastic malt flavour.

2007 would be the perfect yeast for this style, its a great yeast.

bloody great

PS.... i think cluster hops are traditional in this style.

CAP 2

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 52.00 Wort Size (L): 52.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.90
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.43
Anticipated EBC: 6.2
Anticipated IBU: 32.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
68.8 7.50 kg. IMC Pilsner Australia 1.038 3
22.9 2.50 kg. TF Flaked Maize UK 1.040 0
5.5 0.60 kg. Hoepfner Caramel Malt Pils Germany 1.036 3
2.8 0.30 kg. TF Caramalt UK 1.034 30

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.50 10.2 First WH
60.00 g. Cluster Pellet 7.00 22.7 60 min.
50.00 g. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.50 0.0 0 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.10 Oz Irish Moss Fining 10 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP833 German Bock

 

[Asher]

CAP - What a style. One that I have been drawn to and loved for a long time. In fact searching for the lighter colour needed to make this beer was one of the reasons I went 'All Grain' in the first place! Speaking of places I managed to get the trophy for best lager and a gold medal for a CAP I entered into the Perth Royal Beer Show.

As for recipes and interpretation of style - I think good results can be had with quit a range of Hops Malts and Yeasts. A necessity for this style IMO is a good 20% or so flaked maize. Of equal importance is impeccable sanitation, good fermentation control and techniques to produce a beer without flaws leaving only the sweetness from the corn and the hop bitterness to fight it out till death....

Asher for now

 

[Asher]

Bit more on hopping.

This is one of the few styles where I prefer to use high %AA Hops. There's a whole lot more to hops than the number of IBU's they produce and I feel that keeping the grams to a minimum adds to the crispness needed here.

 

[Asher]

Yum

 

[oldbugman]

I think this will be on the cards for me.
looks like theres plenty of people who love em out there.

 

[Ross]

I love this style...
Here's the first one I made & it was truely a great beer - using rice gives a crisper profile & accentuates the hops better than using corn - Having tried both, it's still a toss up to which way I prefer it...
The Swiss Lager yeast (S-189) is hard to beat, hard fast ferment & so clean, perfect for the style...

CAP
Classic American Pilsner

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Ross
Boil Size: 34.00 L
Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.0

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.15 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 83.9 %
0.80 kg Rice, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 16.1 %
19.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.40%] (80 min) Hops 16.6 IBU
20.00 gm Cluster [5.00%] (80 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [6.00%] (10 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [6.00%] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs Swiss Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile
Measured Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 %
Bitterness: 30.3 IBU Calories: 446 cal/l
Est Color: 6.1 EBC
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.0

+++

Putting this one down next

CAP
Classic American Pilsner


Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Boil Size: 34.00 L
Boil Time: 90 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.50 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 57.9 %
1.70 kg Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 28.1 %
0.55 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 9.1 %
0.30 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.9 %
22.00 gm NZ Saaz B [6.70%] (60 min) Hops 13.5 IBU
22.00 gm Cluster [6.60%] (60 min) Hops 13.3 IBU
26.00 gm Tettnang [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
14.00 gm Tettnang [4.50%] (10 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
14.00 gm NZ Saaz B [6.70%] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
14.00 gm Tettnang [4.50%] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Swiss Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.8 %
Bitterness: 38.7 IBU



Cheers Ross

 

[Kai]

My idea of a CAP is thumping in enough (since we're american here) maize to give a good sweet mouthfeel then cutting that right back with a light attenuative grist for the remainder. Keep it dry, throw in some hops if you want. There's no need to taste bitterness but a little won't hurt and I like the thought of some old american hop varieties, possibly mixed in with european. I want a sculler with corn flavour when I think of this style, preferably with some hop flavour too.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Hi All and Ross( Refering to ross's reply)

A Classic American Pilsner would never have used adjunts such as rice or maize.These beers were made by new imigrant German brewers.I think what you are refering to are" modern style american Pilsners".Still good but not the same.The classic would be all grain and uses classic noble German hops.I brewed one here for The Royal Perth Beer show and got a Silver.Not bragging but I did some research into the style and the difference is noticable.
Neville
Gryphon Brewing
Perth

 

[marky_mark]

I wouldn't be so sure Gryphon.

My understanding, and I believe that of most brewers around the world, is that Pre-Prohibition/Classic American Pilsners included a significant portion of adjuncts in their grain bill, particularly corn. They were produced by German Brewers who migrated to the US, where they had an abundance of adjuncts, such as corn, that could be used to up the gravity of their beers at low cost. Additionally this allowed them to reduce the protein content in their beer by cutting the american six-row barley with theses adjuncts and avoid haze issues.

Traditional hops were actually also local varieties of european hops, such as cluster.

I'm not sure how much research you have done, or what your sources are, but might I direct you to www.thebrewingnetwork.com/jamil.php for a run down of this and other styles

Cheers

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Marky-mark
Yes I do agree with you to a point.They may have used adjuncts later on in there brewing classic American Pilsner but you have to understand the German mindset in relation to brewing with adjuncts.They brought their brewing knowledge and yeasts from Germany and were the pioneers for the style and others.Not to mention the purity laws which have made the German beers exceptional even to today.I dont believe you need adjunts to brew a Classic American Pilsner if you know how to use your grain and use appropriate yeast and mashing profile and understand Boil times and the affect on colour.If you want a watered down version of the original then adjunts will achieve this.Wish I had a bottle of the original!We could sit down and compare.But I know what works and I will stick with it.Mines a pleasure to drink.I will work on the style resources for you and see if I can get any original recipe out of archives.Thanks for the responce.
Neville
Gryphon Brewing