Steinlager Clone

[Enerjex]

Hi all, planning my next lager and would like to work on something close to or similar to a steinlager. Green Bullet is the hops they claim to use, has anyone used these? Also I'm lost on what to do with the grain bill for it. I've got a lager just bottled with 90% weyermann pils 10% flaked rice and the malt character is nothing like the steinlager at all. Have done a search and kind find anything about it. HELP! :beerbang:

 

[domonsura]

I think Green bullet was/is the hop used, I'd keep the grain bill very simple and mash low. I don't know what malts they use, but i would think a pilsner malt mashed around 62-63 with maybe a little carapils for some body and see how that comes out. Aim for about 30-35 ibu's I reckon, although I'm not sure if Green bullet is the only hop in there.... Steinlager doesn't have much in the way of malt flavour to me, medium on the bitterness with the green bullet and not much hop aroma. Had my fill of it while I was over there for the last month and I have to say I came away thinking that it's a much more mediocre beer than I used to think it was.....
Where'd you get the green bullet?

 

[discoloop]

Steinlager's a funny one - I go through waves of "this beer is great" followed by waves of "this beer is boring". I think it's great at the moment!

 

[Enerjex]

I've since read this article http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/steinlag.html

However it may be a little different here than in the US. He states it's 4.8% but it's 5% (not hard to overcome), and he doesn't seem to know that the bottle says Green Bullet hops on it (this may also be different in the US). His estimate at it is 100% pilsner grain however it would seem that he hasn't tried making it as well....

This is where I'm at now as a starting point -

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 32.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated FG: 1.010 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.10 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.Grain 100.0 %
9.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (45 min) Hops 13.1 IBU
10.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (10 min) Hops 5.7 IBU
10.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (5 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
10.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Hops -
1 Pkgs Danish Lager (Wyeast Labs #2042) Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.10 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 13.31 L of water at 72.3 C 64.4 C 75 min



Edit just saw your post domonsura, am still bearing carapils in mind but hadn't seen your post at the time of doing the estimate above. I think the 22IBU in the link is a little low as well, I guessed it would be around 30. I can smell a hint of spicy hop aroma in it and more hop flavour than bitterness. Drank out of stubbies tonight will test color in a glass tomorrow. I'm treading with caution with the amount of Green Bullet used for flavour and aroma as I'm concerned with it's high AA it could become overbearing easily. Ross has the 07 flowers listed.

 

[domonsura]

The recipe and text in the article you linked to mention the use of NZ Hallertau hops as well as Green bullet, and i would agree.

Perhaps try using some Hallertau Pacific in there as part of the bittering shedule, up to 50% of it(or all of it and just late bitter & aroma with the GB. I don't reckon you'd want to hop fully with the green bullet it might be a bit much maybe ?
I know from past results that the Hallertau Pacific whole cones as a bittering hop create a good base to then add slight bittering and complete aroma hops with a range of different hops, it would work ok blending them. Might have to have a go at it myself..........

 

[roger mellie]

Any Kiwis out there might remember in the early 80's when you could only get this in bottles/cans - one of the blokes in our cricket club - (ex international fast bowler) who was a Lion Breweries rep (I think) managed to score a few kegs so our cricket club has this on tap (not strictly legally) - went down a treat. I used to think it was a pretty good beer back then.

I would be chucking in some (10%) rice flakes to thin it out a bit.

Just my 2c worth

Good luck and share the results - would be keen to give it a go also.

RM

 

[tangent]

damn! i went down this kiwi brewing path years ago before Ross took over distribution of NZhops
it's not just green bullet, there's another Kiwi hop i'm sure.
there's a kind of woody high aa hop... stickelbract! i'm sure of it
try that with pils malt and no flavour or aroma additions

 

[Kai]

That sounds right to me, John. I was certain there was another hop in there too and had been trying to remember.

Whatever the hop is, I'm pretty sure it's printed on the bottle label.

 

[tangent]

i'm sure that's the one
speal on the neck label, oh man am i a beer nerd!?

 

[Enerjex]

That sounds right to me, John. I was certain there was another hop in there too and had been trying to remember.

Whatever the hop is, I'm pretty sure it's printed on the bottle label.

Green Bullet is on the label, wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of nz hallertau or something else with it

 

[domonsura]

I reckon it's NZ hallertau, a couple of the beers I've made with NZ hall have had (to me) an unmistakeable steinie'ish flavour to them.

 

[Jazman]

super alpha

 

[microbe]

There's nothing but Green Bullet mentioned on the label on the ones in my fridge - not saying there's nothing else in there - just nothing else mentioned.

cheers,

microbe

 

[Enerjex]

so you mean super alpha for flavour and aroma jazman?

 

[roger mellie]

Im going to give this a go


edit : found this link also

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/steinlag.html

Steinlager Clone
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 25/08/2007
Style: German Pilsner (Pils) Brewer: Roger Mellie
Batch Size: 25.00 L Assistant Brewer: Tom
Boil Volume: 32.55 L Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 % Equipment: Keg Kettle

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.25 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 81.7 %
0.75 kg Rice, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 14.4 %
0.20 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 3.8 %
20.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (45 min) Hops 25.7 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (20 min) Hops 10.7 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (5 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
20.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (90 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.048 SG (1.044-1.050 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.013 SG (1.008-1.013 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Color: 6.5 EBC (3.9-9.9 EBC) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 39.9 IBU (25.0-45.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 2.4 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 4.6 % (4.4-5.2 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 4.8 %
Actual Calories: 470 cal/l


Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 15.60 L of water at 69.3 C 64.0 C 60 min




Notes
What a good way to break in my NEW SS Conical. )

Brewed for the RWC 2007 Final - Where NZ WILL break their 20 Year Hoodoo.

Mash in with 15.6
Mash out with 6.6
Sparge with 17
Total Water 39.2

RM

 

[Enerjex]

Thankyou for all the posts, I have modified mine a bit but and am open to suggestions. i've gone a little less on the IBU than you RM and the grain bill is a little different because yours is very close to the lager i have just bottled, so i would like to try something a bit different. Not sure what the best thing is to do with super alpha so I have left it out at this stage jazman.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 32.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated FG: 1.008 SG
Estimated Color: 7.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.Grain 91.8 %
0.30 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 6.1 %
0.10 kg Amber Malt (Joe White) (45.3 EBC) Grain 2.0 %
8.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (45 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
25.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (10 min)Hops 9.1 IBU
25.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
10.00 gm Green Bullet [13.50%] (5 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (0 min) Hops -
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.90 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 12.79 L of water at 72.3 C 64.4 C 75 min

 

[tangent]

they used to mention stickelbract in the blurbs, now they only mention green bullet

i think your original recipe would be really good if you mash low or step mash.

edit - one malt, one hop and one yeast, so 50% of your tweaking is in the recipe (should be pretty easy) and 50% tweaking with your process.

 

[domonsura]

Am I wrong Roger, or do I recall you saying somewhere that you were an ex-pat kiwi? (Yay for kiwi's!!!)
I'd be keen to see what the results from your brew will be, your grain bill is a little different than I would (I would have stuck to straight pilsner malt with 200gms carapils, but maybe I'm not aiming for a classic steiny I spose) but the hop bill is pretty much what I had thought would turn out a nice beer, around the 40 ibu mark.

 

[roger mellie]

Am I wrong Roger, or do I recall you saying somewhere that you were an ex-pat kiwi? (Yay for kiwi's!!!)
I'd be keen to see what the results from your brew will be, your grain bill is a little different than I would (I would have stuck to straight pilsner malt with 200gms carapils, but maybe I'm not aiming for a classic steiny I spose) but the hop bill is pretty much what I had thought would turn out a nice beer, around the 40 ibu mark.

Yep - Proudly - remember - I brought the FB off you - and lamented about Gisborne - where my parents dragged me for a MONTH every XMAS holiday. Have driven the Wiaoeka gorge more times than I care to remember.

I had a go at a Stella Clone a while ago - the first time I had used Rice Flakes - worked well - the mouthfeel had that 'hollow' patch in the middle that you find in some commercial swill. Always thought that it added alcohol whislt thinning the beer out. Certainly had the body I would be looking for.

Steinlager - I have fond memories of - but I think my effort will have more hop flavour.

Will certainly report back.

Cheers and go the All Blacks

RM

 

[domonsura]

:lol: I just drove through the waioeka 14 times (BOP to gisborne & back etc ) in the last month...... the road hasn't got any better, but the roadworks guys seen to have got worse at signposting the gravel.... Twice on the roadbike straight out of storage for the last 5 years........(too old for that **** I've decided...)

i reckon your brew will have more hops too, good effort.

(I'm more of a fan of the Britten race bike and the like, than I am the All Blacks..... )