Squat 23 And 12 Litre Kegs

[dreamboat]

Certainly has popped out there PP..... would be practically useless if you can no longer stand it up without having to worry.
I would imagine you will have no problem getting your sheckels back from the supplier, but it creates some uncertainlty in the market for these things (read "how long before this topic goes the way of the hop bulk buy") and also in your own mind as to whether you can trust these things.
Any volunteers to try to burst one?
I can get the pressure test equipment from work (used for pressure testing water pipelines).... just set the pressure and plug it in!



dreamboat

 

[dreamboat]

Wow - that was quick!
Post deleted after less than eight minutes on line on a Sunday morning.


dreamboat

 

[PistolPatch]

Dreamboat Thanks for the PM help with getting the pics up. (I was having quite a nightmare!) As to the pressure testing, I might even email Morgan's rather than going via my HBS and I'll be certain to ask if we can use this keg for your explosive idea!

More Pictures Digital camera has totally failed so have had to use phone. Resized them but have only got them down to 400k using Microsoft Picture Editor.

View attachment Normal_Base.bmp
View attachment Popped_Base.bmp


Note: If someone writes a really clear topic on posting pics or can direct me to one, I will pay them a million dollars.

 

[PistolPatch]

This last photo is of the keg from above. As you can see, they are quite a neat little keg so it would be great to see them succeed. As dreamboat mentioned though, when you're dealing with presure, trust is a very important issue. I certainly won't be force carbonating at high pressure any more.

View attachment Keg_Top.bmp

 

[Beerpig]

Pressure vessels that deform & not certified! ................... bad, bad, bad!

Not to mention extremely dangerous & illegal

Report them to the consumer watchdogs & get your money back

Cheers

 

[dicko]

Any volunteers to try to burst one?
I can get the pressure test equipment from work (used for pressure testing water pipelines).... just set the pressure and plug it in!



dreamboat

[post="116439"][/post]​

Hi Dreamboat,
I would imagine that the plastic tubing to the disconnect and the barbed fitting would "part company" before the keg should burst or even pop.
This is obviously not so!

Wow - that was quick!
Post deleted after less than eight minutes on line on a Sunday morning.


dreamboat

We are now all wondering what you said?

Cheers

 

[PistolPatch]

Wow - that was quick!
Post deleted after less than eight minutes on line on a Sunday morning.


dreamboat

We are now all wondering what you said?

That was my fault Dicko. Dreamboat managed to see my first attempt at posting the pics which I deleted a few minutes later as some of them didn't upload correctly. That's when he made the post above. I sent him a PM explaining my repeated failed attempts at posting the pics. He immediately and kindly replied with the correct advice and even offered to post the pics for me. Good on him for ending my ordeal! (Just sorry I couldn't get the images smaller or to actually appear in the post despite a good 25 minute search!)

Cheers PP

 

[als_world]

Note: If someone writes a really clear topic on posting pics or can direct me to one, I will pay them a million dollars.

PP, Bitmap picture (.BMP) are not a good format for internet posting, as they cannot be easily compressed. If your phone or digicam is producing .bmp files, you should open them in your picture editor and resave them as JPEG (.JPG) files. Doing that alone will reduce the size by at least a quarter usually.

If you are using Windows XP, you can do this with Paint (File-> Save As -> Save as type -> JPEG).

If you want to then easily resize your JPEG images without having to use the resize functions in another paint program, download the "Image Resizer" program from http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloa...ppowertoys.mspx.

This will allow you to right-click on an image using explorer and select a new size. For forum posts, Small (640x480) will be fine. This should make your file size around 50-60KBytes, which is much more managable and able to be viewed on dialup connections. The quality at this size is also fine for screen viewed images unless you want to show very small details.

I've reattached one of your photos after doing exactly this. The file size has gone from 400+ K down to about 25K. File size is 16x smaller, but quality is pretty much the same.

Also, using JPEG alows "inline" viewing on AHB, whereas BMP files need to be opened before you can see the image.

Cheers,

Alan.

Edit: Added bit about inline images.

 

[dreamboat]

PP... I am not so sure that attempting to burst a keg is actually the best idea.
What would be useful however would be to ensure that the keg can hold, say 500KPa ok.
The test rig actually forces water into the vessel and increases the pressure that way, which means that if it should actually burst, it is in a much safer fashion than if it was filled with gas of some sort.


Cheers
dreamboat

 

[PistolPatch]

Al. Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to write the above. Hopefully your info will find it's way into POL's Newbie thread. Between you and Dreamboat, all is clear now.

Was just joking about blowing the keg up, Dreamboat. I thought that you'd do the above experiment first and then blow it up! Well, it would be nice to know just how far they would go before becoming lethal! I will though, do my best to see if the keg can be acquired for a pressure test.

Thanks to you both. PP

 

[normell]

Also there is a free program, "JPEGCOMPRESS"

 

[BrissyBrew]

Pressure testing in the manufacture process can be a real PITFA. Although it does give some of the guys in the workshop some excitment for the afternoon, especially if they rate them for 1/2 of kaboom. Stage one, pressurise until release valve is spewing out gas. Stage 2 (here starts the fun bit) remove release valve pressurise until keg explodes. Rate keg 1/2 of explosion pressure, or below distortion (you can find that out at the releif valve stage.

I note the complaint about the kegs not being stamped. Stamping produces a week spot. So no stamping is a good thing, especially if you claim the steel is thinner than a corny keg. Maybe they should stamp the handles or something instead.

It looks like these kegs are not going to explode but are not shaped to take pressure without distorsion. The dipple on the bottom to get a flat surface to sit the keg on , is going to have to fight against pressure so it does not surprise me it is the first to go. Early warning device maybe.

 

[snookums]

I have one of the 12L versions. I haven't applied any direct CO2 pressure to it yet, but it does have a naturally-carbonated witbier in it and nothing's happened yet.

I'll be keeping a close eye on it from now on (well, not too close!).

 

[PistolPatch]

Excellent information BrissyBrew!

Update: Just spoke to my LHBS and he said that they are now issuing leaflets with the kegs saying that they are not to be pressurised above 35-40PSI (260-280kpa).

I just had a look at my reg then and the HBS has marked 350kpa to force carbonate. I may have well been up around here in prior force carbonations and couldn't honestly say that I didn't hit 320 on Saturday.

LOL Snookums, and I forgot Jerry from way before! However, I'm pretty sure we can still stand next to them without going :unsure:....

If You Do Have One of These Kegs... I asked Ross for some advice on force carbonating them as personally, I reckon they are excellent kegs and I certainly wish to keep using mine. He suggested that I could still use his method of forced carbonation but drop the pressure to 200kpa and rock for two minutes.

This seems to fit in with BrissyBrew's comments and the manufacturer's new recommendations so I'm happy with that. I'll actually probably go with 250.

P.S. I pushed the point about being allowed to blow my keg up but I won't get any answer until Thursday. Exciting stuff! :lol:

 

[Jye]

Hey PP,

Try just setting your reg to serving pressure (assuming you have a balanced system) and shake your keg for 5ish minutes, this works just as well and there is no chance of over carbonating and popped kegs.

 

[dicko]

Excellent information BrissyBrew!

Update: Just spoke to my LHBS and he said that they are now issuing leaflets with the kegs saying that they are not to be pressurised above 35-40PSI (260-280kpa).

[post="116644"][/post]​

Issuing a leaflet is hardly the fix on a safety issue.

What if someones guage is incorrect?

What if a child turns the knob on the guage?

What if, in a limited space, someone is connecting / disconnecting a QD and it pops and jambs his / her hand in a restricted space.

Come on now, this is a manufacturer / importer problem and should be dealt with at that level.

I would imagine by now that the importer is fully aware of this situation and by rights all the suppliers / retailers should have been notified as to a more suitable course of action to remedy the situation.

Leaflet hahahahahahah!

Cheers

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks Jye. I actually didn't realise that you could do that. I will look forward to trying that on my next brew. (Could be one problem though Jye. As I have only 1m of beer line, I suppose we can safely say that my system is slightly unbalanced! Will put this on my, 'to do,' list!)

dicko Very valid comments. Some of the posibilities you mentioned I didn't even think of as I have no kids about. It would be great to hear back from the AHB explosives experts as to what they think a keg popping at 325 would explode at.

I had started to think, dicko, that there is a long way between popping and exploding but this could be because I have a vested interest in these kegs working. (If they don't, all my planning has gone to sh*t!) So, I would also like to know, if a keg pops at 320, will it explode at 5,6,7,800 etc.? Thanks mate.

 

[dicko]

Thanks Jye.

dicko Very valid comments. Some of the posibilities you mentioned I didn't even think of as I have no kids about. It would be great to hear back from the AHB explosives experts as to what they think a keg popping at 325 would explode at.

I had started to think, dicko, that there is a long way between popping and exploding but this could be because I have a vested interest in these kegs working. (If they don't, all my planning has gone to sh*t!) So, I would also like to know, if a keg pops at 320, will it explode at 5,6,7,800 etc.? Thanks mate.

[post="116666"][/post]​

Hi PP,

With my limited knowledge of consumer laws, I was under the impression that if you were sold an item that is not suitable for its intended use then a refund or recall would be automatic.
I would imagine that a keg that "grows" in height after you have used it, falls roughly into this category, considering that the only reason you bought them (and including me for that matter) was that their height fitted within the internal constraints of our respective serving fridges.
When I purchased mine I wasn't told that they may grow in stature, or, not to apply certain pressures.
I would like to think that the importers know about this problem and are about to reply with an acceptable solution.

Cheers

 

[PistolPatch]

[EDIT: Just doing a morning post check and am unsure if the following is relevant for you or not. All I'll say, is that even if your keg has not popped, you could still get a refund as you bought it with the understanding that it would hold a given pressure without deforming. Maybe this last sentence is more useful than the 50 that follow!]

You are absolutely correct dicko. With only minor exceptions, you, the purchaser, are entitled to a refund, a repair, or a replacement. This is your choice, not the sellers.

For example, I bought an air conditioner 11 months ago and after countless contacts, (I'm stupidly tolerant and polite) I actually rang the wholesalers. I asked for a completely new unit and he said, "Why do you think you can get a new unit?" For him to say this is actually illegal and defintiley should not be said to PistolPatch when he is over-tired!

Everyone does it though.

I said to him, "Come on mate, you have to be joking. You know the law and I know the law." (Swear words have been deleted.)

I actually then hung up on him. (As I said this had been going on for 11 months.) I then immediaiately sent a fax pointing out the illegality of his comment and gave them 7 days to replace my air con.

It came immediately.

My digital camera just carked it. I know when I take it back to the retailer next month when I go to Sydney (where I bought it) that he'll say, "OK. Leave it with us and we'll send it in for repair and you'll get it back in 4-6 weeks." I will say, "No! Give me money!" (He's a nice guy so I will actually not even give him that opportuinity. I'll say, "Look, I know I can get my money back but do you have a better camera. If so, I'll buy it and pay you the difference.)

Sorry dicko, I'm slightly off-topic, but, as you say, if you have bought these kegs and want a refund, follow the above advice. They do not have a legal leg to stand on.

Sorry for my ramble! So, dicko, you have these kegs as well?

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Just spoke to my LHBS and he said that they are now issuing leaflets with the kegs saying that they are not to be pressurised above 35-40PSI (260-280kpa).

OMG, so they are made of thinner material than an aerosol can are they?

I feel for anyone who has bought these things...I'll be telling everyone I know NOT TO BUY THEM! :blink:

PZ.