Splashing And No-chill Using A Cube

[Brewlord]

Fellow Brewers,

As I mentioned in a previous post I am trying to get into extract brewing to allow me to personalise my beers more than what can be done in K&K. I have been reading information and asking questions about using the no-chill method to cool the wort overnight before fermenting and would like to get some opinion or experience from the forum.

My concern is the potential for oxidation when transferring the hot wort from the boil to the cube. Advice I have received and information that I have read always mentions to avoid splashing. Palmers guide relates specifically to cooling prior to transferring to the fermenter which is OK but I like the advantages of minimal time required to cool the wort, no requirement for a chiller, ability to make bulk wort and store for later etc. (These advantages are all listed in the no-chill guide from this forum). In addition I was also advised by my LHBS that no-chill is a good way to go.

To give more information of my concerns, I have a 20 litre heavy base stainless steel stock pot (yes a Rolls Royce at a Rolls Royce price) and a 15 litre cube. I did a dry run with water using about 12-15 litres and found that I still had some splashing. I applied the principles I use when racking and used a 750mm length of hose. Of course as there is no tap to connect to on the stockpot, I jammed a funnel into the top of the hose to channel the fluid down to the cube. Accordingly the bottom of the hose sits close to the bottom of the cube. I found that I could achieve a reasonably consistent pour with a small amount of turbulence at the funnel if I stopped and restarted the pour. The stockpot with fluid is reasonably heavy so I am going to need to stop / restart a few times during the transfer.

My questions are:

1. Is there a better way to transfer with the simple equipment I have on hand? (I am willing to buy whatever else is necessary to do it this way.)

2. And, am I unnecessarily concerning my self if the maximum amount of splashing is confined to some turbulence and slight splashes in the funnel and at the base of the short hose in the cube (particularly when it is not submerged in the initial stages of the pour)?

I note from Palmers guide that if the wort is at or below 27 deg C (80 Deg F) it is probably OK for a few splashes but that then requires a chiller or water bath and defeats the no-chill methodology and the associated advantages. I guess my question is the old how long is a piece of string but I dont have any relative guide to what amount of splashing is OK. If I get the idea that standing back at 5 paces and lobbing the beer in is bad, but a controlled and contained fall through a hose from a minimal height is Ok then I will understand a bit more.

Any advice is appreciated.

Cheers

BL

:unsure:

 

[mwd]

What about using a glass siphon tube same as winemakers use.?

Flowrate will be a bit slower but zero splash.

 

[muckey]

What about using a glass siphon tube same as winemakers use.?

Flowrate will be a bit slower but zero splash.

+!
I'd definately be using some kind of syphon. as well as zero splash you have the added bonus of not lifting a large pot of boiling wort

 

[Brewlord]

What about using a glass siphon tube same as winemakers use.?

Flowrate will be a bit slower but zero splash.

Yeah thanks for the response Tropical_Brews. I thought about siphoning but wasnt sure of how to go about it the best way. Any more detail would be appreciated........

 

[Phoney]

If you're only doing extract brewing, why are you bothering to chill into a cube? My understanding is you only need to do it when you have 23L of boiling hot wort to cool.

With a 20L pot & a 12L boil, just fill your laundry sink half full of water, then sit your pot in that water for half an hour. At this time of year I find it cools down to around 20C in that time. In warmer months, you can fill a few soft drink bottles up with water and stick them in the freezer for a few hours and pour them in, or freeze them solid and let them float. Or you can even get a bag of ice from the servo and tip that into your sink if you want it cooled in 5-10 mins.

Then for your topping up water, I have a refillable 10L water container that you get from the supermarket, and i fill that up the day before I brew, stick it in the fridge and then it's nice & cold for when I need it. - Again, my tap water is 15C at the moment, I only do this in summer.

 

[mwd]

It is just a glass tube about 0.5m long about the same diameter as a bottling wand with a U at the bottom looks like a walking stick.

The hose fits over the long end of the tube.

Not sure if you can buy them easily here in Oz but should be easy enough to get made up by any laboratory supplier or even those glass blowing stores you see at craft markets.

Try a google as first shot or a good LHBS might put you on the right track.

PS winemakers go through them fast coz they are very easy to break.

 

[Brewlord]

If you're only doing extract brewing, why are you bothering to chill into a cube? My understanding is you only need to do it when you have 23L of boiling hot wort to cool.

Phoneyhuh,

As I mentioned in my original post, I am transferring to a cube for the anticipated 'convenience' of not having to do everything on the same day. This just give me some options to do it slow and steady and get it right. I figure while its cold here it might be better to get the process all weighed off. In summer I will probably just cool the wort in an ice bath and ferment from there.

As with the reason for doing a no-chill, I am going by the guide provided in this forum and using it as another method of cooling the concentrated wort.

BL

 

[troopa]

Did i miss the comment where you just get a siphon going from the wort to the cube.. say 1.8 meters would do it.
Make sure you read the thread on the types hose you should use though. Will certainly make you more paranoid then miss informed i think.

You may have just missed the posts this last week on Hot Wort transfer/splashing oxidisation and the issues stemming from it, a couple of them were a really great read to be honest and in most cases the end result was there was negligible problems associated with splashing hot wort in home brewing situations

My suggestion would be to go though with what ever you are capable of doing now and taste the final product then make a judgment call

Tom

 

[Phoney]

Phoneyhuh,

As I mentioned in my original post, I am transferring to a cube for the anticipated 'convenience' of not having to do everything on the same day. This just give me some options to do it slow and steady and get it right. I figure while its cold here it might be better to get the process all weighed off. In summer I will probably just cool the wort in an ice bath and ferment from there.

Fair enough

As Troopa said there was a thread on here a week or two ago discussing hot side aeration. The consensus seemed to be that it wont make much of a difference to your final product. You really only need to be super careful of oxidization after fermentation is complete eg: when racking to secondary

 

[Brewlord]

Fair enough

As Troopa said there was a thread on here a week or two ago discussing hot side aeration. The consensus seemed to be that it wont make much of a difference to your final product. You really only need to be super careful of oxidization after fermentation is complete eg: when racking to secondary

Thanks for the last two posts from troopa and Phoneyhuh. I was looking at both siphoning and HSA in the last few minutes. The general concensus about splashing hot wort is that its probably OK. I even found a comment that some commercial brewers may even do this. I also now seem to remember doing a few brews at that place in canberra (U-Brew it) and I dont recall too much concern with they way the warm wort was pumped into the fermenter.

Iam thinking that I will either set up a siphon arrangement or at the worst just do the pour through the funnel and minimise the splashing as I go and see what happens.

 

[troopa]

Good work brewlord
if you cant get your hands on a decent length of good quality hose in time for your brew then just go with the method you already have .. never know give it some tweaking and you might come up with a great transfer method for extract/K&K and mini biab ppl out there.


Tom

 

[Scruffy]

[...snip...]...the warm wort was pumped into the fermenter.

Pouring into fermenter you want maximum splash - syphoning into cube from boil pot you want silicon hose and one of those tube, and a bit of care - or plumb in a tap! - i bet everyone splashes a little bit.

 

[smollocks]

It is just a glass tube about 0.5m long about the same diameter as a bottling wand with a U at the bottom looks like a walking stick.

This is called an easy siphon, or auto siphon, or racking cane. Unless you find a stainless steel one, they are not designed for hot wort and will soften and melt. Similarly, if you're going to siphon using just a piece of hose, you'll need something stronger and more heat resistant than simple vinyl hose.

I've done AG in a 20L pot and cooled it in the kitchen sink over about 20-30 mins. After that it was poured into the fermenter with a lot of splashing. It is a simple job, and I'd be doing that if you don't already have the right hoses and cubes to no chill a small batch.

 

[mwd]

You may wish to review that last post smollocks unless your wort is at 1723 C

 

[smollocks]

Sorry - didn't read properly, assumed you were talking about the standard easy siphon . Never seen the glass ones you describe.