Sanitization

[bignath]

Something to add to this, speaking from personal experience: I don't know what BacBan is composed of, but Starsan is mostly phosphoric acid. Don't do the above with Starsan.

ok, to clarify, when i say store until needed... i mean maybe a week (two at the most) as my turn over means a "stored" fermenter doesn't stay stored for too long!

 

[mikec]

I believe Starsan solution becomes ineffective if left for long periods in tap water?
I think this is actually written on the bottle.
To make a solution that will keep longer, use distilled water.

 

[QldKev]

I believe Starsan solution becomes ineffective if left for long periods in tap water?
I think this is actually written on the bottle.
To make a solution that will keep longer, use distilled water.

I store some mixed in a spray bottle and use it for up to a month or so. I was always told if it doesn't go cloudy it's still active. Never had an issue this way. Don't know if it makes a difference mine is stored in the fermenting fridge.

I have given some mix to mate in a coke bottle he cleaned. It went cloudy within 24hours.

QldKev

 

[jyo]

If I use tap water it can cloud up in a day or two. Distilled water lasts for weeks.

 

[NewtownClown]

When I mix it with tap water it is instantly cloudy. however, pH tests show it to still be effective for weeks after...

 

[Nick JD]

What is a flavour of phosphate?

Tastes like when a seagull ***** in your mouth.

 

[NewtownClown]

Tastes like when a seagull ***** in your mouth.

:lol:

That's a benchmark I am glad not to have..

 

[Nick JD]

:lol:

That's a benchmark I am glad not to have..

Lorikeet is actually quite tasty. Especially if the Grevilleas are in flower.

 

[jyo]

Lorikeet is actually quite tasty. Especially if the Grevilleas are in flower.

:icon_offtopic:

That reminds me- last Summer we were down in Freo on the boardwalk with the kids when a seagull shat all over my head, face (getting behind my sunnies) and some went in my mouth. I tasted it.

It didn't taste taste like chips.

 

[squirt in the turns]

What is a flavour of phosphate?

Obviously (or possibly not) I was using the word "flavour" idiomatically. E.g., quarks come in different flavours, but I don't think anyone's ever tasted one. Perhaps I'd have avoided your wrath by using the word "type".

Phosphoric acid breaks down spontaneously? How?

Again, perhaps I should have used a word like "dissociates". Also, I didn't mention any "spontaneous" decomposition. I imagine it has something to do with reactions with the various compounds found in wort/beer/tap water. I'd be happy to be corrected/enlightened by our resident chemist. In fact, my feeling is that that would be more beneficial for all, rather than posting snarky rhetorical questions.

 

[Lecterfan]

however, pH tests show it to still be effective for MONTHS after...

I've edited the above quote to accurately reflect my experience with starsan and ph strips over the last 18 months. Just need a strainer to pull out bits of bottle label or whatever that might have fallen into the bucket (if you use it that way).

This is but one of the many reasons starsan is awesome.

edit: pretty sure it was from the podcast that Truman linked to, but the cloudiness does nothing to indicate a change in the efficacy of the solution.

 

[Florian]

Then i refill with hot water and a lid's worth of unscented Napisan (or alternative). Fill it until it foams and as soon as the liquid under the foam overflows the fermenter, i turn off the tap. If i have any other items that need it, they get thrown in the fermenter too.
Leave this usually overnight (not because i need to, just 'cause there's no rush at this point).
Drain, and another quick hot rinse to get rid of Napisan residue. The water will "bead" down the walls of the fermenter by now and it looks all squeaky clean.
If i'm gonna refill it straight away, i do so in a clean, draft free environment in the house.

Without wanting to get involved in that personal thing that you guys have I really can't see the huge difference between your and Carnie's process here. You clean your gear and rinse with water, he cleans his gear and rinses with water. Both of you don't use a no rinse sanitiser (I realise you often do, but you also say that you sometimes don't as stated above).
Yes, he cleans his plastic bits in his bath but he also tips his cleaning solution into that bath, really not that much different from tipping it into a fermenter like you do or any old bucket that's been sitting in the garage for jonks like many others do.

Nothing fundamentally wrong with both of your processes, I'm sure that many agree that it's better to also use a no rinse sanitiser but you're both taking a calculated risk (maybe Carnie's is slightly higher) and as long as you both are aware of that then that's fine.

As for noobs, there is so much info in this thread and many others that they can take an educated guess and use their common sense to decide what process is best for them. They're adults, after all.

I know it's pretty entertaining for us but for a noob it must be more annoying to wade through all that personal bitchfight stuff in this thread when looking for quick and clear info than reading Carnie's supposedly wrong info in the context of many supposedly right posts.

Anyway, as I said I don't want to get involved just thought I point out the obvious.

 

[Damien13]

naah get into it Florian! I was hoping for one of those awesome mid fight comments that gets stuff boiling again...kind of like where the momma jokes were heading....

Pretty tragic, but this awesome homebrew bitchfight was one of the highlights of my day..

I need a new job.... clearly...
heheh

Having said all this, I agree with you Florian... you are a very diplomatic young man....

kudos...

 

[drsmurto]

Obviously (or possibly not) I was using the word "flavour" idiomatically. E.g., quarks come in different flavours, but I don't think anyone's ever tasted one. Perhaps I'd have avoided your wrath by using the word "type".



Again, perhaps I should have used a word like "dissociates". Also, I didn't mention any "spontaneous" decomposition. I imagine it has something to do with reactions with the various compounds found in wort/beer/tap water. I'd be happy to be corrected/enlightened by our resident chemist. In fact, my feeling is that that would be more beneficial for all, rather than posting snarky rhetorical questions.

I find people retain knowledge more when they learn it by themselves rather than being given the answers.

However, 'tis the season for giving so I'll offer a few insights.

Cloudiness does not automatically indicate the phosphoric acid is breaking down. Starsan contains a number of ingredients. Is the pH increasing (assuming you measured it)?

I use starsan and make up 10L batches and store it in a cube, the lid is on to stop things falling in but it is not sealed. I use it for sanitising kegs, fermenters, cubes and plate chiller. I recycle it so over time it does get a buildup of 'floaties' so i strain out. The pH doesn't change significantly over the months i keep it for.

I also have concentrated phosphoric acid (80+% from memory) that is used in the same manner at diluted to the same concentration as you get when using starsan. This also retains the same pH over a few months.

Starsan, like any acid based sanitiser works in a very simple way - it reduces the pH to a level where 99% (or whatever % the manufacturer claims) of bacteria etc are killed. If the pH of your solution isn't increasing then it is still effective. Simple science. A surfactant (dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid) is added to make it cling to surfaces.

Cloudiness is more likely due to either a chemical reaction between the plastic you are storing the starsan in (not all plastic is acid resistant) or if you are using a container that was used to store something else (eg. another chemical) then you may be seeing a reaction between 1 or more of the chemicals in starsan and any residue left behind despite how thorough you have think you were cleaning it. Or something as simple as the various minerals in tap water or chlorine/chloramine reacting with the starsan.

Enough of the niceties, I'm going back to snarky rhetorical questions.

Happy Festivus. :icon_cheers:

 

[sponge]

Serenity now.

 

[carniebrew]

Serenity now.

:icon_offtopic:
"The Airing of Grievances, perhaps the most confusing of all Festivus traditions, takes place immediately after Festivus dinner has been served (but prior to the Festivus dessert). it consists of heedlessly lashing out at loved ones regarding the various ways they have angered or disappointed you in the year since the last Festivus."

So I guess that's done. Now all I have to do is wrestle someone during the Feats of Strength. Any takers?

 

[mosto]

Go buy yourself a box set of Mythbusters for xmas, and make sure it includes the episode that shows the toilet seat harbours less germs than the kitchen sink....then freak out about me cleaning my gear in a pristine bath.

Well that's it, no more laundry tub for me, I'm going to jam a sieve in the bowl of the crapper, chuck in some Napisan and all my bits and pieces, and give it a couple of flushes :lol:

 

[sp0rk]

Now all I have to do is wrestle someone during the Feats of Strength. Any takers?

Come at me bro

 

[carniebrew]

Nothing fundamentally wrong with both of your processes, I'm sure that many agree that it's better to also use a no rinse sanitiser but you're both taking a calculated risk (maybe Carnie's is slightly higher) and as long as you both are aware of that then that's fine.

I agree that my routine could be tightened up by using a no rinse sanitiser in my FV and on my gear as a final step, rather than rinsing with water as I do now. Once I get my hands on some Starsan I'll start doing that. I got so involved in spec grain discussion with Chris at G&G last week that I completely forgot to grab it while I was there.

That being said, it's not so long ago I was making kit beer with 20 odd litres of unboiled water straight from the tap (IN MY BATH), and never had any infections there. And i'm still making full extract brews with only a partial boil, then topping up with tap water. I understood the risks even before my first home brew, 'coz I did my research first.

 

[pk.sax]

I really dislike the abuse of the word '****'. Jumbling the letters is very disconcerting. I have all sorts of doubts about you now. You, you know who you are, need to stop being a 'cnut'.

Discuss...

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Uum I have seen videos on "****" abuse and I must say I quite enjoyed them, each to there own.
Nev

 

[jaypes]

Uum I have seen videos on "****" abuse and I must say I quite enjoyed them, each to there own.
Nev

Haha

That's a **** act

 

[QldKev]

So back to the topic

Can I just throw my fermenter in the shower with fat ladies showering, or does that risk yeast infections?

 

[carniebrew]

I didn't wanna get banned. And I was at work.

Mind you I have no idea what gets you banned from this place, it seems language isn't an issue?

 

[carniebrew]

So back to the topic

Can I just throw my fermenter in the shower with fat ladies showering, or does that risk yeast infections?

Surely an appropriate image should have accompanied that comment?

Something like....

 

[robbiep]

haha, thanks for the advice guys. My local home brew shop doesnt have starsan, might have to try the next best thing.

 

[pk.sax]

Go to the pharmacy and buy a bottle of hydrogen peroxide. Search up the dilution rate on here/online but basically, prepare fresh and spray/swirl in whatever needs it just prior to use. Absolutely no-rinse and non toxic and the pharmacy will have it.

 

[dammag]

haha, thanks for the advice guys. My local home brew shop doesnt have starsan, might have to try the next best thing.

At least one of the site sponsers has Starsan available mail order, good value yeast etc if your LHBS is a bit "behind the times". Doesn't cost much in postage and you'll be using what I would say the majority have a good run with.

Damian.

 

[Nick JD]

My laundry sink is completely infected with US05.

 

[QldKev]

At least one of the site sponsers has Starsan available mail order, good value yeast etc if your LHBS is a bit "behind the times". Doesn't cost much in postage and you'll be using what I would say the majority have a good run with.

Damian.

I recommend getting a bottle of starsan. I used bleach as a sanatiser, then the bleach/vinegar sanatiser mix for years. A bottle of starsan will last years (unless you spill it all) and makes life a lot easier. A $14 post bag will get a bottle and a lot of other goodies in it.

QldKev