Saison Recipe Critique Please

[jyo]

looks fine to me. you could simplify it by dropping the munich and the biscuit and just using vienna to keep it simple.

I have a pack of 3724 belgian saison yeast in the fridge just waiting for the temp to crack 30+ in my garage, and im making one again.

Will be making it down low at about 1.040 and mashing at 63 for a super dry beer. LEt it run as it wants in the heat of the garage in the summer......... the perfect aussie summer beer!

Thanks, Tony. I'll just go the galaxy, wheat, vienna and the sugar. Looking forward to this. :icon_cheers:
Cheers, John.

 

[Tony]

these yeasts are famous for being very good atenuators so there is really no need to use sugar.

Id just use malt and mash cool at 63 or 64, and maybe a boiling water infusion up to 71, rest for 15 and mash out at that.

That will get you a really low FG without having to use sugar which really adds nothing to the beer but alcahol in the end.

cheers

 

[jyo]

these yeasts are famous for being very good atenuators so there is really no need to use sugar.

Id just use malt and mash cool at 63 or 64, and maybe a boiling water infusion up to 71, rest for 15 and mash out at that.

That will get you a really low FG without having to use sugar which really adds nothing to the beer but alcahol in the end.

cheers

Ok, sounds good, mate. I can see this being my summer beer for sure. I'll let you know how this turns out.
Cheers again.

 

[drtomc]

FWIW, I just did a gravity reading on my second Saison

3kg Wey Pilsner malt
2kg Wey Wheat malt
1kg Wey Munich I

Mashed BIAB 90mins at 72C-73C, mashout at 77.

Wyeast 3724.

OG 1.060, current SG 1.006. Will probably bottle at the end of the week.

As Tony says, it attenuates well.

The sample was pretty tasty - I can't wait to try it cold and fizzy instead of warm and flat.

T.

 

[brett mccluskey]

I've used the 3724 numerous times and it's notorious for slowing down to to virtually nothing at about 1025-1030 .Use the 1056 to finish it off,or the S-05.I've spoken to Ben Krauss at Bridge rd about his saison,and this is what he does also.The first time i used the 3724 it took nearly 6 weeks at 29c to get to 1012 with no finishing yeast...scary! :drinks:

 

[jyo]

I've used the 3724 numerous times and it's notorious for slowing down to to virtually nothing at about 1025-1030 .Use the 1056 to finish it off,or the S-05.I've spoken to Ben Krauss at Bridge rd about his saison,and this is what he does also.The first time i used the 3724 it took nearly 6 weeks at 29c to get to 1012 with no finishing yeast...scary! :drinks:

Holy ****, that's a long fermentation period! So does adding the US05 scrub off any of the saison yeast character? Also, do you need to drop the temp when adding the 05 to avoid stuffing the yeast?

@drtomc- Do you mean mash at 62'-63' ?

Cheers blokes.
John.

 

[Tony]

Another good yeast to finnish with (if you must) would be 1007..... dry and crisp.

I just let the 3724 put away as it must for a month or 2

 

[drtomc]

@jyo Yes. 90mins @ 62-63 (my current firefox version crashes when I try to edit).

Give it time, and 3724 gets fantastic attenuation.

T.

 

[brett mccluskey]

Holy ****, that's a long fermentation period! So does adding the US05 scrub off any of the saison yeast character? Also, do you need to drop the temp when adding the 05 to avoid stuffing the yeast?

@drtomc- Do you mean mash at 62'-63' ?

Cheers blokes.
John.

As far as my experience/knowledge goes ,all the saison flavour develpment has been achieved by the time i add the 1056.My experience is that it starts off like the clappers for the first 4-5 days,then over the next few days to a week slows down to bugger all so you think it's stalled/If you leave it ,it will eventually get there,but bloody hell,6 weeks is very scary brewing.I really think mash profile for simple sugar production is an important factor in a good saison ,to get a crisp,dry,character. I add a 1.5-2 litre starter after the gravity is stable for 2 days,generally 4-6 days after primary starts.Have patience ! A good saison takes time,but it's worth it :super:

 

[brett mccluskey]

Holy ****, that's a long fermentation period! So does adding the US05 scrub off any of the saison yeast character? Also, do you need to drop the temp when adding the 05 to avoid stuffing the yeast?

@drtomc- Do you mean mash at 62'-63' ?

Cheers blokes.
John.

As far as my experience/knowledge goes ,all the saison flavour develpment has been achieved by the time i add the 1056.My experience is that it starts off like the clappers for the first 4-5 days,then over the next few days to a week slows down to bugger all so you think it's stalled/If you leave it ,it will eventually get there,but bloody hell,6 weeks is very scary brewing.I really think mash profile for simple sugar production is an important factor in a good saison ,to get a crisp,dry,character. I add a 1.5-2 litre starter after the gravity is stable for 2 days,generally 4-6 days after primary starts.Have patience ! A good saison takes time,but it's worth it :super:

 

[drtomc]

Absolutely! I've only done a handful of AG brews, and Saison is the first one I've done twice.

My previous one I used a really bland malt bill (from memory, 70% Pils, 30% wheat) to let the yeast sing, and it was very good. This time I've added Munich, and from the sample jar, it has lifted it another notch.

T.

 

[brett mccluskey]

Absolutely! I've only done a handful of AG brews, and Saison is the first one I've done twice.

My previous one I used a really bland malt bill (from memory, 70% Pils, 30% wheat) to let the yeast sing, and it was very good. This time I've added Munich, and from the sample jar, it has lifted it another notch.

T.

sounds very nice.I personally like to keep the grist bill relatively simple,2-3 grains,and let the yeast make the statement regarding flavour.The 3724 develops heaps of flavour/aroma without the addition of any spices .A touch of rye isn't bad either :icon_chickcheers:

 

[jyo]

Good stuff. Thanks for the replies, fellas. I will put it down in a couple of weeks and will update on how it goes.
Cheers, John.
This is it:
Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (P): 13.1
Colour (SRM): 4.1 (EBC): 8.1
Bitterness (IBU): 38.1 (Average)

51.85% Pale Malt
24.07% Vienna
24.07% Wheat Malt

0.4 g/L Perle (7.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.3 g/L Styrian Golding (3.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L Perle (7.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
1.7 g/L Styrian Golding (3.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Styrian Golding (3.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)

0.2 g/L Coriander Seed @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Orange Peel @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 64C for 90 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 25-29C with Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison

Notes: Pale malt is BB Galaxy

Orange peel and coriander added at flameout to allow for no-chill in cube.

20 minute hop additions are at flameout to allow for no-chill in cube.

Recipe Generated with BrewMate

 

[drtomc]

My 2c would be to drop the coriander and orange peel. Ferment warm (e.g. pitch at 24 and ramp up to 30 over a few days) and let the yeast sing!

T.

 

[jyo]

My 2c would be to drop the coriander and orange peel. Ferment warm (e.g. pitch at 24 and ramp up to 30 over a few days) and let the yeast sing!

T.

Yea, might not be a bad idea so I can find out what this yeast does on its own..
Cheers, mate.

 

[brett mccluskey]

x2 Let the yeast speak,heaps and heaps of spiciness by itself.Play with temp. and pitching rate,etc,to your preference in flavour profile Whatever your grain bill is it's the yeast that makes a saison. :icon_cheers:

 

[mika]

I've only done the one saison thus far, but I wouldn't be starting the ferment real warm, you still don't want the fusel alcohols. Though perhaps it won't be so bad at 1050. The yeast certainly works slow (9 weeks for me), so I wouldn't be worried about it running away and fermenting the beer without all the saison yeast spicyness that is expected.
Just my 2c.

 

[drtomc]

According to "Farmhouse Ales" the Dupont strain (i.e. the Wyeast 3724) is particularly notable for producing low levels of fusel alcohol when fermenting warm. My experience (1.5 saisons) is in accord with this. I think a fusel alcohol presence is probably an important contributer to the spicy character, though I emphasise "presence" not "dominance", "kick in the head", or anything. We're not trying to make rocket fuel (see the Malt Liquor thread )!

T.
ps I see that Carwyn Cellars has a range of Dupont beers currently. I picked up a Moinette, but there were several others in addition to their Saison. Love Carwyn Cellars!

 

[thewobblythong]

second that on kai's Saison, tried it at a comp once best beer tried all day. he had some good competition

Sorry for the grave-dig on this thread, but I am a mad Saison lover...

another + 1 for Kai's Saison recipe. I brewed it a few months back, and it is a rocking recipe. Currently messing with it for the next brew to see if I can get more out of the yeast.

 

[winkle]

If you are re-using W3724, the next generations seem to preform better ie: 2 weeks to ~1.004
(or just use W3711 which is almost as good and much quicker)