Removing Excess Sodium From Brewing Liquor

[willanth]

Greetings all!

After reviewing the terrible city water here in Adelaide, I've gone over what I need to do to adjust it for the styles I enjoy making. The one thing I keep running into is the really high sodium levels. I don't think my water filters are going to screen that stuff out, is there any way that I can get that stuff out? At the batch size that I'm at, I really can't afford to buy distilled water and augment it. Sodium seems to be my only problem. The filters manage to take out all the chlorine taste and such that this area's know of.

Cheers
Will

 

[Stuster]

Firstly, what is the sodium level for your water? It can be fairly high without causing problems, Palmer says up to 150ppm is ok.

One option is reverse osmosis to remove sodium. There are also water filters that have a sodium removal filter, but I have no idea how easy they are to get. :unsure:

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Hi Will

The easiest way is to dilute with rain water to get the Sodium level down

Most styles can be brewed with the water as it is - even lagers. When you adjust it, you need to get it near what the typical profile is for the area, not exact. Most areas have a reasonable variation on the water profile from various wells in that area.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[willanth]

Thanks for the information everyone! I will begin looking into an RO system shortly. I am working on a couple of specialty ales that I need consistency and repeatability regardless of brewery location or source water.

I was hoping maybe there was a shortcut method that I didn't know about.

Cheers!
Will

 

[mika]

RO Water IIRC removes too much of the good stuff and is no good for brewing with, or you have to add back a bunch of minerals to make it any good.

 

[Inge]

RO Water IIRC removes too much of the good stuff and is no good for brewing with, or you have to add back a bunch of minerals to make it any good.

This is what I heard as well.

Surely it's easier and cheaper to find a bulk supplier of distilled water than invest in reverse osmosis? What kind of scale are you brewing at?

 

[kook]

If you can afford it, RO seems like a great option. It leaves you with almost pure water.

You can then adjust the water to any profile you want, you just need to keep the minerals on hand. If you've got the time (and accurate scales) you can just set up little packets of minerals to add to the HLT for each water profile you use. Ie, when you fill up your HLT with RO water, just throw in a packet of "Burton salts", "Dusseldorf Salts", "Dublin Salts" etc.

 

[tangent]

it's good to start with a clear slate and add what you need.
why not use the free evaporation and precipitation, or like Pedro says - rain water

 

[enoch]

I think the only option if you figure you have a problem is substitution or dilution with rain or ro water. Have you looked at the Australian Water Quality Centre figures http://www.awqc.com.au/customer_service/fa...ata%2001_06.xls to see whether the Na levels are out of scope for what you want?

I think there was another thread on this previously.

 

[davewalk]

I remember being at some sort of occhealth session many, many years ago and the presenter there saying that it's dangerous to drink distilled water as it tends to absorb minerals and things on it's journey through the body thus depriving the body of its' existing goodies.
But then again, if you drink Adelaide water, as is, you'll get brain damage (just look at the Crows and Port supporters).

 

[willanth]

I was more going for the filter and RO, then add back the minerals appropriate to the water profile that I was aiming for, much like Kook and Tangent mentioned. That way I could use water from ANY source (yes, including sea water) and profile it just as I would like.

To answer Inge's question, I brew at approximately 300 liters of required liquor per batch, and currently two batches a week. Soon that will be ramping up to three or four batches a week as I submit "proof of concept" samples to interested parties.

I'm all about being versitile, and the ability to use any water source and return the water chemistry to nearly zero will be worth the hassle.

If anyone knows a good source for filtration system components, I would appreciate the leads. And yes, Adelaide municipal water is crap really. I am in a rental house so I don't really have the rain tank handy (wish that I did!) and there is no bore here so at my volume I'm kind of stuck on municipal supply.

Cheers to all,
Will

 

[jayse]

I don't really think Adelaide water is crap in fact it can make beer to die for. The sodium content may be higher than some but I don't think its anywhere near high enough to be of a concern its around 80-90 ppm if i remember correctly and that fulls right in line with a reasonble level. pretty much the same level as edinburgh and london and not far off dortmund.
The possible only concern is maybe the lower calcium content for some beers but not anything major, the chlorine levels at certain times of year also would be a concern but thats a easy fix.

Anyway Adelaide water can easily make unreal beer as is, also it can make crap beer but ussually the water is not to blame for any crap beer made with it.

Th CL level is proberly the one of more concern but yet again still well within a reasonble range although higher than most 'famous' brewing water.

 

[tangent]

i don't drink the sh!t though. I'd never put it in my beer, end up smelling like a JS.

 

[willanth]

The chlorine is also a concern, at the moment I am running a .5 micron carbon block filter to screen some of that out. I was hoping that someone here was running some kind of serious water filter so I could get some tips. I guess the real discussion here is how can I get control of my water, and reduce specific content that I don't desire.

I agree that it can make some pretty good beer. With just that .5 micron filter I've managed some really great product. But for that matter, I made some pretty killer beers when I was still extract brewing with tap water in my mom's kitchen. Since then I've progressed. I'm just looking for the next level of progress, that's all.

Cheers,
Will

 

[Stuster]

Weird. I just posted something on another board about this same issue, so I'll just paste it here as well. :huh:


I've been experimenting with this issue. When I first started brewing, not surprisingly I didn't filter and didn't have any problems with the taste of the beer (or at least no more problems than a new brewer does). Then one beer had a medicinal taste to it. It was suggested to me that it might have been the chlorophenols in the local tap water (I'm now pretty sure it wasn't that, but an infection. However.) I decided to start filtering with a carbon filter (which I use for all our drinking water anyway). I thought the beers improved and kept doing that for a while. Then recently, I read that a simple carbon filter may not remove much of the chlorophenols. I decided to use a tiny dusting of sodium metabisulphite to remove the chlorophenols instead. I can't say I've noticed any difference in my beers with this approach. Given that it takes far longer to filter the water, I've decided to stick with that sodium met (campden tablets) for now.

I adjust my water chemistry with gypsum, calcium chloride, chalk, and baking soda. pH strips indicate it's working out pretty well (I've got pretty soft water here) and it certainly seems to help with very light beers (which seemed to have tannin extraction issues before) so I'll probably keep doing it that way for now. The other advantage of this is adding a little more calcium to the mash is helpful. Palmer recommends 50-150 ppm for Ca so I'm low on that.

Adding to that, can you post more details on your water composition. From jayse's post, it seems that the sodium level should be ok (Palmer says 0-150ppm for sodium is optimal). What other concerns do you have about your water?