Recipe Check Black IPA

[Droopy Brew]

Ok let me start by saying I am aware of the oxymoron in naming convention here but lets just put that aside.

So I have done some reading and have developed a recipe for a Black IPA which I will be brewing this arvo- hopefully I can get some timely advice.
I am fairly confident with the grain bill and am aiming to add colour and only a small hint of roast to make it a bit different to a pale IPA ( I think you need something different from the malt in one of these) but without putting it into hoppy porter/stout territory.

Where I would like advice is with the hops. I believe resin and pine are what is called for in one of these but Im also keen to use a fair bit of citra as I know that also works well. So most of my hopping will be Simcoe and Citra but I think Amarillo works well with both these hops. So have a look at the below and let me know if you think the amarillo will add something where it is or if you think it will be redundant and leave it out or perhaps put it in somewhere else in the schedule.


Vol 19L
Eff 70%
IBU 70
OG 1.065
FG 1.013

4.8kg Pale malt
0.55kg Rye
0.3kg Crystal 30

250g Carafa II
250g Roast Wheat Both dark malts will be put in at sparge.

Mash in at 65C for 70 min, Raise to 72 for 10 min, Mash out at 76C for 10 min.
Batch sparge.

Boil 1 hour

Hops:

Simcoe 8g @ first wort
Warrior 7g @ first wort

Simcoe 6g @ 20
Citra 6g @20
Amarillo 6g @20

Simcoe 6g @15
Citra 6g @15
Amarillo 6g @15

Simcoe 6g @10
Citra 6g @10
Amarillo 6g @10

Simcoe 6g @5
Citra 6g @5

Simcoe 6g @ 0
Citra 6g @ 0


1.5g/L dry hop Simcoe @ Citra day 7

Yeast American Ale II

 

[mckenry]

I'm rebrewing my version of Black IPA this sunday. Yours will work well enough. Its too busy for my hop schedule preference. Every 5 minutes isnt my thing. I'd be more likely to go 20, 10, 0.
Each to their own and I think it is ok.
The Amarillo question - I'd leave it out. But, if I wanted to use it up and wanted it to 'add to the beer', why not put your simcoe and citra dry hop additions back through the boil and use all the amarillo as a dry hop?
So many options brother....

 

[manticle]

Not much of a black ipa guy but familiar enough with amarillo and citra and they play nicely. I'd throw in a bit of amarillo later as well (even if it means reducing the bittering to still hit 70). Simcoe, citra and amarillo is the hop combo in my current favourite commercial session beer (4 pines pa).

 

[Droopy Brew]

I usually do the same Macca, more hops at 10 minute and 0 minute additions are my normal schedule. But I am looking to get some more complexity and spread across the taste and aroma range and read (I think it was Yob) mentioned 5 minute additions from 0-20min works well. So Ill give it a go.
Maybe pushing the amarillo back down the line to 0, 5 and 10 minute additions?

 

[doon]

I like midnight wheat to add a deep black eithout the harsh flavours worked well in a stout i made

 

[Droopy Brew]

I believe the roast wheat is the Aus version of midnight wheat. The EBC range is the same.

 

[mckenry]

I believe the roast wheat is the Aus version of midnight wheat. The EBC range is the same.

You'd better be careful about that.
Midnight wheat is very smooth and bitterless. I use 5% carafa3 and <2% roast barley for colour.
Regardsless, youre adding them at sparge so it wont really matter which wheat you have
There are two JW roast wheats;

Roasted Wheat Malt Roasted wheat is roasted in the same way as barley malt, but it results in a lighter flavour. It is used in dark wheat beers to add colour and a roasted flavour. 1200 – 1400° EBC. Roasted Wheat A completely different taste to the roasted barley products,

Roasted Wheat is valued for its unique wheat flavour. It is husk-less, potentially less astringent and roasts to a deep brown/black colour (Colour 1000 – 1400°EBC)

 

[Droopy Brew]

Talking to the guys in the HB shop , this exhibits the same characteristics- very smooth and very little, if any, astringency. I know this guy well and he knows his stuff.

But yes going in at sparge time anyway just to be safe.

 

[big78sam]

I brewed a Black IPA recently that was 1/3rd each of Columbus, Centennial and Amarillo at 20, 5, 0 and dry hop and it is magnificent so I have no problems with Amarillo in a black IPA.

 

[timmi9191]

My latest Black IPA, I used just carafa 2 (500g for 46 lt batch)

Had it in a bag and add for last 30 of mash at 72 degrees. removed bag, no squeezing, before the sparge.

It is black as black and absolutely no roast notes.

I was concerned that the sparge temp would extract more of the tanins, was I wrong?

 

[manticle]

Tannin extraction depends on several factors, of which temp is only one. pH is also very important.

 

[Dan Pratt]

I'm on my phone so its a bit hard to type.....

Mill the black malt separate to the rest and get it really fine, this will extract more colour as its only in during the sparge.

Also......thats not enough hops!!

My recent black IPA had 15,10,5 and whirlpool using Amarillo, Simcoe and Mosaic. Each addition hop was 21g EACH = 63g per addition. Dry hopping was 4g per litre.

 

[Dan Pratt]

.

 

[Blind Dog]

Taste the roast wheat before you add it - even at sparge. The JW one I have tastes like roast coffee beans and comes through strongly even at 1%

 

[Droopy Brew]

I'm on my phone so its a bit hard to type.....

Mill the black malt separate to the rest and get it really fine, this will extract more colour as its only in during the sparge.

Also......thats not enough hops!!

My recent black IPA had 15,10,5 and whirlpool using Amarillo, Simcoe and Mosaic. Each addition hop was 21g EACH = 63g per addition. Dry hopping was 4g per litre.

Calculator says it is.
I have some high alphas.
Warrior at 15.7 and Simcoe at 14.1 so the first addition adds 35IBU.
Citra is at 13.1 too so with the 5 additions (18g per addition combined) I get about another 35 IBU.

Mashing at 65C so I reckon the IBUs should be about right.

Carafa and roast wheat is milled fine and is separate so should get the colour. If I get coffee I will be ok with that but would prefer less of it as it is for comp.

Cheers for the advice but- might bump the dry hop if I feel it needs it at the time.

 

[IsonAd]

I agree with pratty. You need to up the late hops in particular. Black IPAs depend on the hops shining through the flavours from the darker malts. I would be adding at least 100g of hops in the last 10mins/whirlpool prob more regardless of their AA

 

[Fylp]

I've got something similar bubbling as we speak. I recon you need more hops as well. Especially is the late adds.

 

[Dan Pratt]

just checked the recipe on beersmith:

6.7% ABV
80Ibu ( would be about 87 but i dont include whirlpool hops as ibu when less than 20mins whirlpooled)

8% Chocolate Wheat
2% Roasted Barley
colour = 82 ebc

Bittering with magnum to 38ibu from a 60min addition.

The late hops were Chinook 12.3%, Citra 14% & Mosaic 12.1% - all high alhpa

@ 15mins - 14g each hop = 42g
@ 5mins - 28g each hop = 84g
@ WP 10mins - 28g each hop = 84g

Dry hopped with 42g each of Mosaic and Citra

 

[Droopy Brew]

I ended up with an ABV of 6.3% assuming full attenuation.
I ended up putting in a combined 20g of hops at each of 20,15,10,5 and whirlpool- so 100g total.
Calculated IBU of 73 so I think that will be about right as the mash at 64.5C will make it quite dry (was aiming for 65C)

Perhaps next time I will drop the bittering additions to around 30% instead of 45% and make the rest up late.
The very late additions are basically aroma anyway so I might dry hop the shit out of it at 4-5 g/L if I think it needs it at the time.

Thanks for the feedback- will report back in a month.