Rate Powells Pale Malt Out Of Ten

[dr K]

Sorry Ross
Your comments abouts Powells

Powells are basically an animal feed producer who's trying their hand at brewing malt. Until they improve their product, there is no incentive for me to stock it

are not only factually incorrect but strike me as bad business.
Without bothering to go to the Powell's website and check (though did you?) as I remember Grant Powell has long experience in malting, and its a bit of family thing (malting). I have had a number of conversations on the phone with Mr Powell and he strikes me as a man who knows what he is talking about when it comes to malt and malting, though I must admit that I made no enquiries about stock feed so even if I had an inkling about stock feed I could make no judgement.
Strange as it may seem there actually is a Powells right here in Canberra, and guess what, they supply local farmers with all sorts of things , including stock feed. I have no idea if there is a family connection and I frankly cannot be bothered with searching ASIC et al to see if there is a company connection, and anyway, you may not have been talking about the Canberra Powells at all.

To the point..I have used Powells malt and make the following comments:
Powells Ale Malt (that I used, only 50 odd kilos) was flavowise excellent but a bit low on efficiency.
Powells Vienna/Munich I found lacking compared to Weyermann (I've not used JW or BBvarieties)
The bag of Melanoidan I had was gods gift.

Ross, you are doing a fantastic job with good prices and service..OK..
Give me some evidence of your claims about Powells before I take anything that you say with more than a grain of horse-licks.

Kurtz

 

[Lukes]

Pumpy,
I have not used it (the ale malt) for a while (using imports since the last Melb malt bulk buy) but I will use it again.
I giving it what it gives me!
A score of 6.6 and with a 50 step and a finer crush high 7's to almost an 8.
I have not used it in a tun with a false bottom but that may up the %
:beerbang:

- Luke

 

[warrenlw63]

Have used it a few times but only the Ale Malt.

Flavour wise it's OK. In dark Ales it seems similar to Marris Otter and performs well enough augmented with Baird's spec malts. OTOH it's efficiency is average at best. I was getting around 54% with a single temp rest and around 74% with a 40 degree rest.

However with my brewing I like repeatability of results. Powells was not giving me this. Yep, it may be half the price of a bag of Marris Otter but it's lower efficiency sort of robs a bit of the savings in terms of extra malt useage. I've got to agree with Ross that a bag of BB malt is probably not going to cost you any more in the long term.

So for now I'll remain a malt snob and stick with Baird's and Weyermann because I like to use the best. Occasionally I'll use Joe White etc.

My rating out of 10? I'd say around 5 for ease of use (not good) and around 7 for malt flavour (quite good in dark beers).

Note: I understand that Powells are still a fledgling business. I'm sure they're striving to improve to survive in the marketplace. Given the benefit of the doubt you could expect their products to improve for the better over time.

Until then I'll stick with the other brands.

Warren -

 

[Screwtop]

If you can't stock it cheaper then that's a fair call.

It was your advice Ross, using additional sparge water (due to longer and harder boil) that led to the increased efficiency I obtained using Powells Malts.

All noted Ross, and I repeat the above. It is possible for me to achieve quite comparable efficiency using Powells Malt. No additional effort required as the process of using a temp step to mash out and additional sparge water is now my preferred method for all malts, it produces very high efficiency.

You may remember when I was pulling my hair out over levels of 62%. After buying the first bag of Galaxy from you I fly sparged and could only achieve 73% you may remember the call, I had expected that the Galaxy was going to fix my low efficiency problems.

When you suggested getting as much water through the grain as possible I started taking gravity readings during the sparge. It was then that I noticed how high the gravity was at the end of sparging using Powells, doesn't seem to be such an issue with other malts. I had tried coarse and fine grinds and just about every type of manifold and sparge method possible, but until trying the current procedure nothing else gave a significant increase.

Back to the topic, I would rate Powells malt from my experience (6 bags) at 8/10

Would buy Powells again at the drop of a hat, as I can now manage better efficiency from their malts.

 

[jimmyjack]

Value for money Powells Malt is quite good 8/10
Pilsner taste and effeciency 7/10
Ale malt tast and effeciency 7/10

I think Powells is fine when mixed with other malts. My effeciency tends to level out and this malt is quite affordable. However in saying this I have no need to bulk buy anymore due to Craftbrewers range and service. I am looking forward to clearing some of this malt I purchased in the last bulk buy to try BB malts

 

[sah]

Recently Graham Sanders was able to arrange for a lab analysis of several samples from different batches of Powells malt.

The essential findings were that the quality was good. That is, the variability of the malt from batch to batch was on par with industry standard. The malt is less modified though. Therefore, you should see a significant benefit from doing a protein rest.

For the details dig out the relevant podcasts http://radio.craftbrewer.org

regards
Scott

 

[Ross]

Dr K & all....

As I stated in my first post, I was "informed" that Powells were an animal feed maltster that was now trying their hand at Brewing malt. This information came from a very respected industry member & although basically true, now having done my own research - I see that that, the Powells family do indeed come from a background of supplying animal feed malts, but their new enterprise "Powells Malts" was set up specifically for make brewing malts. My understanding was it was the same Company doing both products & my post certainly implies that, so I fully apologise for that inference & any negativity it implied.
Again, let me state I wish Powells Malts every success - they are exactly what the brewing industry needs... :super:

With regards to CraftBrewer stocking their malts, as i said before, I look forward to doing so, when I can on supply them competitively against the other options in the market.

Cheers Ross...

 

[user 384]

I've used Powells malt quite a bit and organised the first bulk buy of it in Adelaide. There was a lot of support for the first bulk buy, but no-one has approached me again to order more, which is a reflection of how it was perceived by Adelaide brewers. Most seem to have accepted paying higher prices for malts like Weyermann.

On a personal level I find the malt only OK. I don't think their Pils malt is a patch on Weyermann's. Their ale malt is fine in beers that have heavy masking of the base malt from hops like an APA or large % of dark grains like Porters and Stouts. I've found it fairly bland in Bitters.

Also I haven't been at all impressed with the amount of foreign matter mixed in the grain. Much higher % of stalk and burrs than any other malt I've used. Plus there is a very inconsistent grain size, which is a PIA for crushing and I suspect this is one of the contributing factors to reduced efficiencies. On my system, I have had loads of difficulty getting a crush that doesn't lead to a stuck mash. I've tried a variety of settings on my Valley Mill, but same result every time, and I don't experience this with other malts, so it's Powells specific on my system. Coupled with the reduced efficiency I find it an unenjoyable malt to use.

Having not bought any more since that original buy, I can't say if they've sorted these problems out (including the mouldy grain problem we experienced).

For me it rates at the bottom of currently available malt and I'm happy to pay more for other brands that have performed much better.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Batz]

I have used many sacks of Powells,there were some stalks etc in the earlier bags.
Now I think the bag of Galaxy I have has a higher percentage of stalks in it.

For the price it is not worth getting Powells sent up here anymore,the bags of BB from Ross will suit me.

Batz

 

[Pumpy]

So Batz how do you rate it out of ten before I give it a go ?


Pumpy

For an all out malt 7
For value 9

Batz

Pumpy want to try some? I'll send you a couple of Kg's for an Ale

Batz

Thanks for the offer Batz

Pumpy

 

[dr K]

Let me first state that I have no commercial interest in Powells Malts.
Let me further state that I have used them (as noted earlier) but have not used them since..I have also used Thomas Fawcetts (magical) crystal but not used it again, its got to do with availability in both cases.

My gripe is with mis-information or worse dis-information:

Lets see:

Dr K & all....

As I stated in my first post, I was "informed" that Powells were an animal feed maltster that was now trying their hand at Brewing malt. This information came from a very respected industry member & although basically true, now having done my own research - I see that that, the Powells family do indeed come from a background of supplying animal feed malts, but their new enterprise "Powells Malts" was set up specifically for make brewing malts. My understanding was it was the same Company doing both products & my post certainly implies that, so I fully apologise for that inference & any negativity it implied.

I am not a farmer, so stand happy and willing to be corrected, but I am not all together certain that grains are specifically malted for animal feed, I grant you that the de-sugared (is that a word) spent grains from breweries make excellent and cheap stock food, as do day old loaves of un-sold sliced bread.
So let us then talk about this "animal feed malt" and these "animal feed malster"s.

Now feed quality barley is about 10% cheaper than malting at the momentNov. Barley which equates to about to about 70 cents a 25kg bag at saleyard.
Base grade, non malting feed barley about $280 a tonne

I think that we (bulk buys etc) pay aound $40 a bag for domestic malt, thats $1600 a tonne.
I reckon CUB/LionN pay about $600 a tonne.
You see there is not a lot of margin here.
Even at low malting margins , what is it about malting aninmal feed that makes Joe Farmer want to pay at least double the price for malted animal feed? Indeed does he? I think not..so whats this about "animal feed malt" anyway.
Now if I were cynical I might suggest that the difference between Malted Barley and Barley
is not fully understood, but .....that is a trap into which I choose not to fall.

And...direct from Powells web site may I quote:

Powells Malt commenced operations in March 2004 at The Maltings, located at Romsey 45 minutes north of Melbourne CBD.

Powells Malt is controlled and operated by the Powell family: Grant, his wife Suzie, and sons Michael and Stephen.

This new company boasts over 100 years of malting heritage. Grant Powell has 35 years experience in the production of malt in Australia , North America and Europe . His father, two uncles and his great uncle were all Maltsters. Grant's first visit to a maltings was at the age of four to visit his dad, Ern, at work at the Flinders Street Maltings (Melbourne), where he was Head Maltster and Manager. This was the beginning of a childhood spent around a number of Melbourne 's Malthouses, and also the beginning of an education in Malting and Brewing.

Grant studied at La Trobe University where he graduated as a Bachelor of Science and later completed a Graduate Diploma of Malting and Brewing Science at the School of Mines , Ballaarat , Victoria .

Michael has a Logistics/Systems background and will undertake further study in Malting and Brewing Science. Stephen has studied Applied Science and is currently completing a Master of Commerce degree, as well as playing football with AFL club St Kilda. Suzie's background is in Marketing Communications.

Perhaps Powells have got it wrong?
Perhaps you should ask them.
And whilst you are at it intrepid reporter, ask them to shed some light on the concept of "animal feed malt".
I will then learn something, which, after all, is what life is all about.

Kurtz

 

[MHB]

All malt houses produce a considerable weight of Culms (the roots of the malted barley removed during kilning and cleaning.
This is around 3-4% of the barley weight, it is traditionally sold as an animal feed; and is in fact a very high quality food.

So all maltsters do produce animal food, but as a by product.

MHB

 

[dr K]

All malt houses produce a considerable weight of Culms (the roots of the malted barley removed during kilning and cleaning.
This is around 3-4% of the barley weight, it is traditionally sold as an animal feed; and is in fact a very high quality food.

So all maltsters do produce animal food, but as a by product.

MHB

Excellent..this is fantastic....
But then if I (as a venture capitalist for example) were to think of buying an animal food maltings house (what we have , on highly regarded second hand authority lets just say that Powells are) then what then would I do with the 96% to 97% waste, perhaps I could sell it at maket price as feed barley...smart.
I am still unconvinced as to what the primary purpose of an animal food malster is.
Or, indeed, what an animal feed malster is..CUB produce tonnes per day of spent grain...are they beer barons or stock feed manufacturers ??

K

 

[Screwtop]

The Research Centre for Innovative Grain Food Products, has been allocated $24 million by the Federal Government to investigate making stock feed fit for human consumption.

Peter Schutz from Weston Technologies is one of the partners in the project, which includes bulk handler Grainco, Joe White Maltings and the WA Export Grain Centre.


Interesting audio from ABC Rural. Link

 

[Batz]

I bought a couple of bags of chook feed yesterday,they had gone up $7.00 per 20kg bag!
Guy told me grain has increased by $130 per tonne,only time till our malt prices go up as well.
Perhaps Powells aready have as they package both at the same place :lol: :lol:

Batz

 

[redgums500]

Let me first state that I have no commercial interest in Powells Malts.
Let me further state that I have used them (as noted earlier) but have not used them since..I have also used Thomas Fawcetts (magical) crystal but not used it again, its got to do with availability in both cases.

My gripe is with mis-information or worse dis-information:

Lets see:

Dr K & all....

As I stated in my first post, I was "informed" that Powells were an animal feed maltster that was now trying their hand at Brewing malt. This information came from a very respected industry member & although basically true, now having done my own research - I see that that, the Powells family do indeed come from a background of supplying animal feed malts, but their new enterprise "Powells Malts" was set up specifically for make brewing malts. My understanding was it was the same Company doing both products & my post certainly implies that, so I fully apologise for that inference & any negativity it implied.

I am not a farmer, so stand happy and willing to be corrected, but I am not all together certain that grains are specifically malted for animal feed, I grant you that the de-sugared (is that a word) spent grains from breweries make excellent and cheap stock food, as do day old loaves of un-sold sliced bread.
So let us then talk about this "animal feed malt" and these "animal feed malster"s.

Now feed quality barley is about 10% cheaper than malting at the momentNov. Barley which equates to about to about 70 cents a 25kg bag at saleyard.
Base grade, non malting feed barley about $280 a tonne

I think that we (bulk buys etc) pay aound $40 a bag for domestic malt, thats $1600 a tonne.
I reckon CUB/LionN pay about $600 a tonne.
You see there is not a lot of margin here.
Even at low malting margins , what is it about malting aninmal feed that makes Joe Farmer want to pay at least double the price for malted animal feed? Indeed does he? I think not..so whats this about "animal feed malt" anyway.
Now if I were cynical I might suggest that the difference between Malted Barley and Barley
is not fully understood, but .....that is a trap into which I choose not to fall.

And...direct from Powells web site may I quote:

Powells Malt commenced operations in March 2004 at The Maltings, located at Romsey 45 minutes north of Melbourne CBD.

Powells Malt is controlled and operated by the Powell family: Grant, his wife Suzie, and sons Michael and Stephen.

This new company boasts over 100 years of malting heritage. Grant Powell has 35 years experience in the production of malt in Australia , North America and Europe . His father, two uncles and his great uncle were all Maltsters. Grant's first visit to a maltings was at the age of four to visit his dad, Ern, at work at the Flinders Street Maltings (Melbourne), where he was Head Maltster and Manager. This was the beginning of a childhood spent around a number of Melbourne 's Malthouses, and also the beginning of an education in Malting and Brewing.

Grant studied at La Trobe University where he graduated as a Bachelor of Science and later completed a Graduate Diploma of Malting and Brewing Science at the School of Mines , Ballaarat , Victoria .

Michael has a Logistics/Systems background and will undertake further study in Malting and Brewing Science. Stephen has studied Applied Science and is currently completing a Master of Commerce degree, as well as playing football with AFL club St Kilda. Suzie's background is in Marketing Communications.

Perhaps Powells have got it wrong?
Perhaps you should ask them.
And whilst you are at it intrepid reporter, ask them to shed some light on the concept of "animal feed malt".
I will then learn something, which, after all, is what life is all about.

Kurtz

Morning Kurtz

One big difference between malt barley and feed barley is that stock feed does not go through the malting process. Only difference between the barley you use for brewing and the barley that goes to feedlots , piggeries etc is the protein level. Barley growers get paid more for Malt 1 and Malt 2 barley than they do for feed barley, at least in a normal year. Throw in a drought , like now, and ALL barley is worth a small fortune.
Rumours have it that malsters are taking 'feed barley' this year due to shotages and high prices for malt types. So all malt snobs ....panic .. you may just be drinking glorifed stock feed. :lol:

ps this is a very simplistic explanation. There are different varieties etc which come into the scheme of things.

redgums :super: