Problem With Taps In Fridge.

[Ross]

Thanks Ross

I know this is taking the thread ever more off topic, but as I suspected your method involves basically using the keg and gas setup as a giant SodaStream machine.

Bearing this in mind, I will now try what I had already been thinking about...introducing gas via the beer post...no need to rock it around and whatnot this way I hope h34r:

PZ.

[post="82755"][/post]​

No need to rock, but will take much longer to carb & won't let you guage how far you've got - good luck with however you do it ...

 

[JasonY]

yes the pressure will stop the beer flowing back up the line....

Careful pressure will not stop beer going back up the gas line, a flow of gas will but if you have the keg on its side you can get the beer to come out of the gas connect (I certainly have).

Personally I try and run a balanced system as I find it easier and I dont have to disconnect my gas bottle to force carb etc. It does have the cons of potentially emptying your gas cylinder but I have only managed that once . If you want to read some more about kegging this thread also has some good info.

 

[Ross]

The kegs always under positive pressure, so I don't see how you get beer flowing back up - I've done at least 60 kegs & never had any start to come back up....

But I stand corrected if I got this wrong...

 

[JasonY]

Ahh yes appears I did not read the method fully, if you hold the keg upright you will be fine as you say. If you turned the keg on its side then the beer can gravitate out the line unless there is a flow of gas to hold it back - the rolling of the keg on the ground with the gas connected is what I was talking about.

 

[Rex]

I think you can use a CO2/Nitrogen mix to help this situation. The nitrogen lets you then run a higher pressure without over carbonating the beer, this is because nitrogen isn't easily absorbed into the beer compared to CO2.

 

[Drederick Tatum]

Anyone in SE Brisbane wanna help me set my keg system up correctly? Free pints are on offer although they may be foamy to start with.

 

[Jye]

I found a good article on setting up a balanced system yesterday but can't find it now

I gathered from it the easiest way to set up a balanced system is to first make sure your kegs are correctly carbonated, use what every method works for you. Attach about 2.5 - 3m of beer line and pour a few pints, might help to have few friends over for this :beer: the pint should pour correctly with nice head in about 8-10 seconds if I remember correctly, ignore the first pint due to reasons already discussed. If it pours too slowly then shorten the beer line by 10-20 cm and pour a few more pints, continue to do this until you get a pour you like. Now you have a system that carbonates and pours at the same pressure.

Please correct if any of this is misleading h34r:

 

[normell]

DT, what you are after is neigh on impossible, get used to wasting a few mils, you won't pour a perfect beer first pull of the day, never, but WHY is it such a bother anyway.

Normell

 

[Wortgames]

IMO, the only way to set up a balanced draught system is to 'suck it and see' over time.

Be really patient, leave it a week between making changes, as every time you change something (especially pressure or temperature) it will take a few days for the system to settle down again. Even shortening the lines seems to take a few beers and a few hours to settle.

What Jye says is true, better to start off with too much beer line inside the fridge, and after a few days (when you are happy with your temp, pressure and carb levels) if you think your pour is too slow then chop off a few inches of line. Repeat as necessary.

If you are messing around with force carbonation, varying temperatures and pressures, you're peeing into the wind by trying to tweak flow rate. Force carbing is one thing when you already have a draught system that works, but if you're still at the 'setting up' stage then force carbing is too imprecise to rely upon unless you give it a good few days to settle down.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Balance the system??????? This is really confusing me. Someone should make an instructional video to show us all how to do it properly. It looks like my 280Kpa for 2 days is too much. And i dont have the foggiest idea about systems balancing them selves out. Is there anyone in Brisbane who can balance these systems or at least put you on the right track by advising on such issues and if there is what do they charge.

[post="82725"][/post]​

DT,
You need to understand how the keg system works in order to properly balance it - effectively you want to manage bottle CO2 pressure, keg temp, and line length to achieve the desired carbonation level (expressed in volumes of CO2) in your system.

Have a read of the following article to learn more:
http://hbd.org/clubs/franklin/public_html/docs/balance.html

I've successfully used Ross's method to initially carbonate the keg and with my 3/16ths beer line cut to the right length and the keg fridge at the right temp, I have lovely well carbonated beer from the first to the last ml...

It's like anything in brewing - easy to start off with and then you dive down the rabbit hole to reach complete understanding! I totally agree with Wortgames re adjustments - you can't rebalance a keg system in a few minutes, and with your new tap setup, you'll probably take at least a couple of weeks to get it all in good order, but hang in there, it can be done if you have the patience...B)

Cheers,
TL

 

[Ross]

Anyone in SE Brisbane wanna help me set my keg system up correctly? Free pints are on offer although they may be foamy to start with.

[post="82809"][/post]​

DT,

Theres a brew day here on Sunday, you're more than welcome to pop over, try a few beers & see how I've got mine set up...

Cheers Ross

 

[Wortgames]

DT, the "Balanced System", in a nutshell, is this:

Rule 1. Level of beer carbonation is decided by temperature and pressure.
Rule 2. It takes a while for the beer to reach this equilibrium.

You can cheat, by cranking the pressure up and/or the temperature down. This will speed up the carbonation process, but if you leave it connected this way for too long you will over-carbonate.

Some people never bother balancing their system - they just crank up the pressure until the beer is fizzy enough, then they apply a different pressure to serve, or just give the keg an occasional 'burst' to keep it pressurised. Usually they disconnect the gas overnight. This works, but it means the beer usually gets either fizzier or flatter over time, because it is not balanced.

A properly balanced system is one where the temperature and pressure are appropriate to develop and maintain the right amount of fizz for you, and ALSO to serve at a comfortable speed. You can therefore connect a flat keg, and leave it connected for a year if you like. After a few days it reaches its equilibrium carbonation level, and providing the temp and pressure stay constant, so will the carbonation level and flow rate.

As mentioned above, it takes a bit of time to tune things just right, but once you have it set up you'll love it.

 

[Wortgames]

BTW, don't start drinking with Ross unless you can handle 5 stars or more...

 

[Drederick Tatum]

So can i just connect and set at 100KPA and that will be ok? Im finally starting to see the light i think.

 

[Wortgames]

It depends how cold your kegs are and how fizzy you want your beer.

The attached pdf has a table that should help you get in the ballpark.

It also has some quick converters for other brewing related stuff.


View attachment wortgames_ready_reckoner.pdf

 

[Jye]

That table is great

Thanks Wortgames :beer:

 

[Wortgames]

No worries Jye, I find it handy to have a laminated copy lying around.

I did give it a quick tidy up just after I posted it, so if you were one of the first 10 people or so who downloaded it you might want to grab the refreshed version (same link).

 

[tangent]

Kegging seems to be a realart in iteslf as far as getting everything exactly how you like it. I don't have time to get a heap of mates around for a swill so I don't bother to keg just for myself. When I 1st started kegging, no matter what we did, the beer would come out foamy no matter what we did.
Ended up, the tool who installed the line from the keg to the tap (and insisted that it was the correct line) was lying. Went to Andale and got brand spanker new line that doesn't expand. Problem fixed. Went through a few bottles of gas due to small leaks, which was disheartening, and learned not to leave the gas on.
So I mostly bottle now, so I can have a pint indoors insead of going out to the shed to pour a draft.
But when you have a show on and the keg's working properly, it's a bloody great way of showing off your beer skills
Hang in there, it's worth it to dick around with your setup and especially check out how other people set theirs up.

 

[Lebowski]

I seem to have got my foam problem under control now.
I turn the serving pressure way down to about 50kpa (before I was trying at 100kpa and just got foam all the time).
I open the tap a little bit (not all the way open) to let most of the air/foam out of the line and cool the tap a bit without wasting too much beer (anyone notice there seems to be a spurt of pressure when you first open the tap then it settles? not sure if this is just pressure built up in the beer line or what).
Then I open it all the way and pour into the jug untill I see nice foamless beer (usualy half a second) and then turn off the tap.
Then I grab a glass and get a perfect pour.
Only problem is the beer in the jug is usualy pretty flat, but theres normaly only about a half glass of beer there.

 

[Jye]

I find it handy to have a laminated copy lying around.

laminating it could be very useful