Preserving

[drsmurto]

OK last post as I see the horse is dyeing.

From what I have read in the posts. Australia does not have a big canning tradition like we do in the USA. Our fairs are full of home canned foods for judging. When I took in 1 of the 2 beers at our fair a lady was in line with over 100 entries of canned goods.

We have food labs where they are always looking at improving the quality and safety of food. Home canning is a big part of that as it is very popular. As I said in an earlier post we can buy canning supplies at almost every store in the USA. Want to learn how to can? It is much easier to learn how to can then to learn how to brew. To show you the difference we have special stores that sell home brew supplies and equipment. I am lucky and have one near me. Some states have only one store. You seem to have the stuff just about anyplace you look. It is the same with canning for us.

The current standard for properly canning jam is to use a water bath. Everything else sounds the same as what you are doing. Oven processing is no longer recommended as well as the once tried system of putting the product in the dish washer.

I can not say why water bath is recommended over any other method. I can only guess that it is safer and they say it produces a product that has better storage. I am sure it also reduces the problem of people not following directions correctly. In the case of jam, from what I have been reading to find out more, if a proper recipe is used there should be enough sugar and acid to keep the product from spoiling. The primary spoilers of jam are fermentation and mold. The problem with home canning is we have no idea what the characteristics of the raw foods are so there is no way to know for sure what the sugar and acid content is.

In the case of vegetables, fish, and meat the only recommended processing method is pressure canning. Some known high acid vegetables can be water bath canned. All of these foods can not only spoil, but get infected and kill you.

The recommendations to use a water bath canner for jam may not be 100% necessary and may be to keep the lawyers away. If you can find authoritative recommendations that say your method is safe then say so. Just because granny did it that way and lived to 100 does not say that everyone can. Put another way, just because one brewer using open fermentors may brew good beer, does that say we should all be doing it?

I am not trying to say what you are doing is wrong. It sounds like it works for those doing it. I am just sharing recommended standards from a country that has a healthy home canning industry. It sounds like you are in the stage of canning where we where in home brewing 30 years ago.

You've missed the point on jam.

When boiling the jam (fruit, sugar and acid, usually in the form of lemon juice) on the stove top the temperature is much higher then the boiling point of water. This process takes anything from 30 - 90 mins until you reach the setting point.

The jars are in the oven above the boiling point of water. Boiling hot jam is added to hot jars and lid immediately put on. A vacuum forms on cooling sealing the jam in.

So using a water bath is not only pointless it is at a lower temperature than the way we do it.

Canning is an entirely different process to jam making. When preserving fruit/veg we use a process similar to your canning technique expect we use very thick walled glass jars with metal lids that get placed in pots of boiling water for hours.

And yes, our local shows are full of little old ladies taking in their jams, preserved fruit and vegetables, dried fruits and meats. So i think the more we argue about this the more we are talking about the same thing.

Another case of tomarto, tomayto in my opinion.

Pic of preserving jars full of zucchini salad

Jam making

 

[Leigh]

That Apricot jam looks good mmmmm!

Katze, we have a company (Fowlers Vacola) that produces all the latest recommendations and sells all the equipment required. Can buy them through most hardware stores and the disposable items can be bought from variety stores.

Here's just one of the specialist stores that sell these products http://www.bakeandbrew.com.au/category23_1.htm

If you track down a Fowlers Vacola recipe book from the 70's and earlier, they all have meat products in them, the modern book only has fruit and veg. I suspect this was due to food safety.

As DrS said, I think we are talking the same thing, just we haven't been very clear!

Cheers
Leigh

 

[drsmurto]

Made 50 jars of apricot jam a few years ago, still working our way through it. The tree crops massively every second year (30+kg).

Here is the fowlers vacola preserving urn that is in use in Australia. This was my mums who kindly donated it to me thinking i was going to preserve fruit. Instead it is used as my HLT although in the last year i have also used it for its original purpose.

It fits in 9-10 of the jars shown in my previous post. The red knob of the right hand side is the thermostat. It's in fahrenheit so its older than me!

My parents have a big walk in pantry and as a kid it was always full of jars preserved fruits, the zucchini salad i posted as well as beetroot and a variety of jams. I grew up on home-made tomato sauce and to this day can't stand the bought stuff so make my own.

I love the fact so many people here are into this and are so willing to share their recipes.

Group hug

 

[Airgead]

I grew up on home-made tomato sauce and to this day can't stand the bought stuff so make my own.

Recipe?

Cheers
Dave

 

[drsmurto]

Recipe?

Cheers
Dave

I'll dig it up when i get home. I have made a few changes to Mum's recipe the last few times i have made it but she has given the last 2 batches her seal of approval.

 

[katzke]

You've missed the point on jam.

When boiling the jam (fruit, sugar and acid, usually in the form of lemon juice) on the stove top the temperature is much higher then the boiling point of water. This process takes anything from 30 - 90 mins until you reach the setting point.

The jars are in the oven above the boiling point of water. Boiling hot jam is added to hot jars and lid immediately put on. A vacuum forms on cooling sealing the jam in.

So using a water bath is not only pointless it is at a lower temperature than the way we do it.

No I have not but I think you have missed mine.

If you tried to teach that method in the USA you would get more then your hand slapped.

It does not have much to do with the temp of the jam as it is already boiled and so should be clean. It has to do with the temperature of the jar, lid, and air in the jar. If you follow your method and put boiling hot jam in boiling hot jars with boiling hot lids and immediately seal them then the chance for infection is very low. The time in the oven has little to do with it, as air is a poor conductor. That is why oven canning is no longer considered safe or proper here.

All the texts and recommendations in the USA say the only safe and proper way to put up, can, preserve, any other way you want to say it about jam is to use a water bath. I could post links all day and we, in the end, will have to agree to disagree.

And yes I did look at the company you referenced. They have a very expensive automatic setup that is a water bath process. I can buy 2 to 3 dozen lids for the cost of a dozen of their rubber rings. After reading for over a year how you can run down to the store and buy fermentors and bottles for brewing I was getting a bit envious. Now I find we have easy access to something you do not. Most all grocery stores have the disposables. The variety stores have the rest. I can even take my pressure canner lid to a county office for testing.

So yes I get how to do jam, we just do it different.

 

[drsmurto]

No I have not but I think you have missed mine.

If you tried to teach that method in the USA you would get more then your hand slapped.

It does not have much to do with the temp of the jam as it is already boiled and so should be clean. It has to do with the temperature of the jar, lid, and air in the jar. If you follow your method and put boiling hot jam in boiling hot jars with boiling hot lids and immediately seal them then the chance for infection is very low. The time in the oven has little to do with it, as air is a poor conductor. That is why oven canning is no longer considered safe or proper here.

All the texts and recommendations in the USA say the only safe and proper way to put up, can, preserve, any other way you want to say it about jam is to use a water bath. I could post links all day and we, in the end, will have to agree to disagree.

And yes I did look at the company you referenced. They have a very expensive automatic setup that is a water bath process. I can buy 2 to 3 dozen lids for the cost of a dozen of their rubber rings. After reading for over a year how you can run down to the store and buy fermentors and bottles for brewing I was getting a bit envious. Now I find we have easy access to something you do not. Most all grocery stores have the disposables. The variety stores have the rest. I can even take my pressure canner lid to a county office for testing.

So yes I get how to do jam, we just do it different.

Fair enough. I guess we don't have the same legal issues you do.

They sell home jam making information/labels etc in every supermarket. They couldn't do this if the process it describes is against the law.

 

[of mice and gods]

Ok, so I know I have a habit of reviving old threads.. by why start a new one when I can add to an existing one..

So, I've been thinking more and more recently about preserving/canning. Now I would say as home brewers we have a bit of a head start, we are already practising beer preservation after all. Some of us are also into smoking/curing meats, jams, etc etc. I myself also ferment my own sauerkraut.

So, as kratzke suggests above, all the current reading on the topic generally condemns oven canning (this is not meant to revive the jam debate above) and recommends water bath canning for high acid foods and pressure canning for low acid foods. Now, I figure most of us have 'canning vessels' already in the form of brewing kettles and urns. So why not put that expensive peice of kit to a second purpose (this relates to water bath canning only)?

So, who else out there does preserving/canning with their brew gear?

I've just bought a half dozen 350ml and 12x 32oz (946.3ml) mason jars and lids and I'm planning on doing another round of tomato/pasta sauce when I can grab a couple of boxes of roma toms off a mate. I would also like to do some pickles, can my sauerkraut and maybe some high acid fruits.

Finally, to add slightly to the previous debate in this thread, I believe an early statement probably rings the most true. The US are a very litigous society so any form of advice that isn't 100% fail safe 100% of the time cannot legally be given without opening oneself up to liability. Hence the current recommendation against oven canning, possibly to account for those few who do not understand the procedure well enough to safely repeat. Current government suggestion is now also to discard jams/jellys with signs of mould where as previously they had condoned removing the mould and the jam still being safe. But hey, we do it here too. It's legislating for the lowest common denominator. However as someone relatively new to this, without a family tradition or knowledge, I'm going to follow the fool-proof guidelines as presented by the USDA and Ball/Kerr.

Here is a link to the USDA Home Preserving page - http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/publications_usda.html

cheers,
Al

 

[of mice and gods]

I've also been thinking about using some of my coopers tallies from my bottling days to bottle some of my own "ketchup" and other sauces, I'm open to suggestion if anyone wants to share any recipes?

 

[Glot]

Preserving fruit/ preserving grain. Similar

 

[New_guy]

Have a go at preserved lemons - very easy and they go with anything

 

[niftinev]

I do a basic tomatoe sauce and tweak to whatever I feel like at the time of making

4kg tomatoes (Blanch in boiling water for 30sec then split skin and peel)
1kg onions diced thinly
1kg sugar
1.5l white vinegar
1 tablespoon of salt
1kg apples (if adding diced apples say reduce sugar to 1.5 cups)

cook all in a large pot 40mins to an hour until desired thickness is achieved. (if too watery just cook longer or less if it thick)

meanwhile sterilise bottles or jars (I place clean in oven for 30mins)

I fill my bottles /jars whilst mix is hot and jars are hot so they don't break, cap and leave to cool or place hot in a hot water bath and boil for 30mins. You will see lid suck in (benefit of using jars) and seal when cool, if not you will need to reboil in water bath or use straight away

if making pasta style sauce just add some herbs of you liking to the above couple of teaspoons of each basil, oregano and red wine if you like

you can use same recipe for chutney just slice your onions and add no herbs except curry and mustard powder, then cook until thick before adding to jars

I use a fowler kit but also just use a pot and normal jars as well when I give away as fowler jars tend not to come back

also like to do jams, chutneys, pickles and preserved fruits in a light syrup (1 cup of sugar per 3 cups of water)

All preserved fruit gets boiled in a water bath, boiling time is dependent on size of jar

jams generally pound of fruit per pound of sugar but I use less sugar just need to test for set or add some setting agent if fruit low in pectin

Sometimes I am lazy and generally don't use the water bath for jams, pickles and chutneys just make sure I add too hot jars whilst jam etc. is still hot. Works okay for me

Also some fruits need ascorbic acid added to the jars too stop it losing its colour and most fruit needs peeling

 

[Airgead]

This weekend's haul.... Quince season.

We have quince conserve, quince jelly, quince and apple jelly, vanilla poached quinces, vanilla quince syrup and some plain bottled quinces. And some shredded quince soaked in brandy to make a quince liqueur.

Plus some picked onions.



Not shown are the quince chutney and the Ligurian spiced quinces we made last weekend. And pear chutney.

We must be mad.

 

[Airgead]

Tomatoes are going berserk at the moment...



So chutney...

 

[jyo]

Do you mind sharing your recipe, mate? I have a few kilos of toms ready to pick at the moment.

Cheers.

 

[Bribie G]

Coles have 500ml preserving jars on special at the moment for $2 each.

I've got cucumber insanity at the moment so making refrigerator pickles. (Dill, slices ginger, garlic, cloves, star anise, turmeric, apple cider vinegar, sugar, water). You don't heat the whole thing, just pack the jars with cuces and dill, then pour the boiling liquid into the jars to cover, then let the flavours develop for a week. That keeps them a bit more crunchy than a full heat job, but must stay in fridge where they are good for about a month.



Also, after trying a lot of different containers, I find these jars are the best thing yet for home brewed greek yogurt made in an esky water bath.

 

[Airgead]

Do you mind sharing your recipe, mate? I have a few kilos of toms ready to pick at the moment.

Cheers.

Sure

Its from Year in a Bottle by Sally Wise. Its the first time I have made this one so a bit of an experiment but tasted great when bottling. Should be fantastic in a few weeks. Easy as to do.

2kg toms finely chopped
500g onions finely chopped
2 cooking apples peeled,cored and finely chopped
2 garlic cloves crushed
2 tablespoons salt
3 teaspoons mustard powder
3 teaspoons curry powder
500g sugar
3 cups vinegar (recipe said white, i used cider)
1 tablespoon cornflour
1/2 cup extra vinegar

Chuck everything except the cornflour and extra vinegar into a big pot. Bring to boil and boil for 1 1/2 hours. Stir occasionally so it doesn't stick.

Mix up cornflour and vinegar into a paste then chuck that in. Stir for 5-10 mins until it thickens.

Pack hot into hot jars. Put lids on. Invert jars for 10 mins to sterilize lids. Should keep a year or two in a dark cupboard. Made 7 big jam jar sized jars. Around 2.5kg of finished chutney.

Next on the list are some tomato chilli pickles.

 

[jyo]

Brilliant. Cheers for that.

 

[Airgead]

Alternate use for the brew kettle... bottled preaches

 

[sp0rk]

I'm doing a batch of habanero and tomato chutney tonight
My neighbour gave me a heap of tomatoes (in return for cleaning a nasty porn virus off his PC) and my habanero plants are going off chops, so I thought I'd best make use of them

Recipe is adapted from a basic chilli chutney from taste.com

2 tablespoons olive oil
2 teaspoons brown mustard seeds
1.2kg tomatoes, roughly chopped
2 brown onions, halved, chopped
6 habaneros, halved lengthways, deseeded, roughly chopped
500ml (2 cups) malt vinegar
3/4 cups sugar
1 tablespoon mixed spice

Hoping it turns out nice and hot

Think I might do a mango & habanero chilli sauce or sriracha with the left over habaneros