Pear Cider

[postmaster]

Hi. Just done some 48 litres of Pear Cider from Williams pears. Put them through a commercial juicer and just decanted some of the residue off the top.
OG was 1.060 and PH 3.78 Added DAP
Did a starter on 20 grams of Mangrove Jack M02 cider yeast
Hit with Campden Tablets and did not pitch yeast for at least 24 hrs.
Did notice some of the Camden Tablets did not dissolve properly
Decantered some of the wort of the yeast. Swirled aroung and pitched.
No activity after 12 hrs, so I just pitched 2 more packets.
I was about to plitch 6kg of dissolved sugar to get the yeast going, but did not as I
Got some activity 8 hrs later. Very very slow though

Any thoughts would be appreciated

 

[MHB]

Couple of obvious ones: -
Is Mangrove Jacks Cider Yeast tolerant of Metabisulfite?
If so how tolerant and how much did you add?
I don't know and CBA doing the research for you, you should know the answer before buying the yeast or adding Met.
Did you add some yeast food, not just DAP which is just a nitrogen source, yeast food (nutrient) contains lots of other stuff that yeast needs. One thing about pear (Perry) is that its virtually free of anything other than sugars as far as yeast is concerned.
Mark

 

[postmaster]

Couple of obvious ones: -
Is Mangrove Jacks Cider Yeast tolerant of Metabisulfite?
If so how tolerant and how much did you add?
I don't know and CBA doing the research for you, you should know the answer before buying the yeast or adding Met.
Did you add some yeast food, not just DAP which is just a nitrogen source, yeast food (nutrient) contains lots of other stuff that yeast needs. One thing about pear (Perry) is that its virtually free of anything other than sugars as far as yeast is concerned.
Mark

I would hope so. I have used it on Apple Cider. Also waited the required 24 hrs before adding yeast.
Could be a good point, because I know when I also used it on Apples a couple years ago it was very slow to start.
I added 2 tablets per 5 litres and thats the required does for PH of 3.6 so I was a little bit under. (Added 20 tablets)
"OG was 1.060 and PH 3.78 Added DAP" As stated in 2nd line of post.
Specifications of MO@ attached.
I have tried to contact Mangrove Jack, but have received no reply
Cheers

 

[MHB]

I have a hunch we are talking at slightly cross purposes, so lets get things clear.

Why are you waiting 24 hours before adding yeast, is that to give the Metabisulfite time to work?

These tablets you have added, do you mean Campden tablets (metabisulfite)?

DAP (diammonium phosphate) is a bit like super phosphate, it just supplies Nitrogen. Yeast needs other things as well, DAP can help but you are way better off using a yeast food that will contain DAP as well as trace elements, vitamins, minerals... Pear juice is a desert when it comes to nutrients other than sugar('s).

Other than what you have posted above do you have any more information on the yeast, a "how to use" something by the maker tat tells you how to use this yeast.
Mark

 

[postmaster]

I have a hunch we are talking at slightly cross purposes, so lets get things clear.

Why are you waiting 24 hours before adding yeast, is that to give the Metabisulfite time to work?

These tablets you have added, do you mean Campden tablets (metabisulfite)?

DAP (diammonium phosphate) is a bit like super phosphate, it just supplies Nitrogen. Yeast needs other things as well, DAP can help but you are way better off using a yeast food that will contain DAP as well as trace elements, vitamins, minerals... Pear juice is a desert when it comes to nutrients other than sugar('s).

Other than what you have posted above do you have any more information on the yeast, a "how to use" something by the maker tat tells you how to use this yeast.
Mark

My bad spelt Campden tablets incorrectly. (have edited)
The 24 hrs wait is mainly for the effects of the Campden (metabisulfite) tablets to dissipate otherwise fermtation will stall.
Mangrove Jack's Says to pitch yeast direct (which I did on the last 20 grams) or rehrydrate and pitch)
I though the start would be the go to as there were plenty of yeast in the bottom of the 2 litre starter.
Still waiting on a reply from Mangrove Jack
Tks
John
ps It has started, but very slow and only moved a couple of gravity point, but I think there might be a fair bit of crustation on the tilt at this stage.
Just hope it keeps going. (Red Tilt)

 

[Grmblz]

As Mark mentioned, DAP by itself isn't particularly good especially with fruit juices, you really need a complete nutrient something like fermaid Learn more about our nutrients. | Lallemand Brewing but in a pinch get some bakers yeast, just the cheap stuff from a supermarket, and boil it for 5min's, cool and add to the fermenter, and probably a good idea to chuck in a couple of fresh packets of the cider yeast.

 

[MHB]

Ok we are talking about something that is a little outside my area of expertise, haven't made cider for years and just working from memory so might be a bit off track, but to the best of my recollection...
Campden tablets were developed to give people (not just beer/wine/mead/cider) makers a convenient way to add controlled amounts of metabisulfite, or more accurately free Sulphur Dioxide (SO2).
Being developed in the UK they were standardised to yield 50ppm of free SO2 in 1 Imperial Gallon (~4.55L).
Wine (and cider) yeasts are breed to tolerate 50ppm of SO2, wild yeast and bacteria don't like any SO2 and are inhibited.
You have added (from above 20 tablets to 48L) about double this amount, I suspect you may have inhibited your yeast to some extent.

On the waiting 24 Hours, from what I recall that was a stand for Pectinase enzyme (if used) to work on pulp and haze forming pectin's, it isn't required if the must is reasonably clear or you haven't used pectinase.

I just think you may have OD on the Campden.
Mark

 

[postmaster]

Ok we are talking about something that is a little outside my area of expertise, haven't made cider for years and just working from memory so might be a bit off track, but to the best of my recollection...
Campden tablets were developed to give people (not just beer/wine/mead/cider) makers a convenient way to add controlled amounts of metabisulfite, or more accurately free Sulphur Dioxide (SO2).
Being developed in the UK they were standardised to yield 50ppm of free SO2 in 1 Imperial Gallon (~4.55L).
Wine (and cider) yeasts are breed to tolerate 50ppm of SO2, wild yeast and bacteria don't like any SO2 and are inhibited.
You have added (from above 20 tablets to 48L) about double this amount, I suspect you may have inhibited your yeast to some extent.

On the waiting 24 Hours, from what I recall that was a stand for Pectinase enzyme (if used) to work on pulp and haze forming pectin's, it isn't required if the must is reasonably clear or you haven't used pectinase.

I just think you may have OD on the Campden.
Mark

I think next time I will only put in 1 Tablet per 5 Litres
1 Imperial Gallon is equilivant to 4.55 litres. So 48 litres = 10.5 Imperial Gallons so 2 tablets per gallon (PH 3.4 to 3.6) = 21 Tablets
Put in 20 Tablets.
On a lighter note
A quote from Edgar Allan Poe
“Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see.” LOL

This is quote from a Craft Cider Making Book by Andrew Lea
"Do I need to add campden tablets?"

Campden tablets (sodium metabisulphite) are sometimes added to apple juice before fermentation to subdue some of the wild yeasts and bacteria present in the juice, reducing the likelihood of the cider spoiling. Dosage depends on the acidity of the juice: a low acid juice (pH of 3.7 to 3.8) will require 3 campden tablets per gallon of juice; average acid juice (pH of 3.4 to 3.6) will require 2 tablets per gallon; high acid juice (pH below 3) does not require campden tablets.

To add campden tablets, crush them in a little warm juice or water and add to the juice in the fermenter. After 24 hours add a cultured cider yeast or a cultured wine yeast, and prime the airlock.

"Why can't I add yeast at the same time as my campden tablets?"

Andrew Lea, author of Craft Cider Making, explains that adding Campden tablets at the same time as the yeast is likely to inhibit the yeast 'too strongly' and so will adversely affect fermentation. Adding the Campden tablets to the juice at least 24 hours before the yeast not only gives the Campden tablets sufficient time to kill off spoilage organisms, it allows time for the free sulphur dioxide to disappear before the yeast is added so as not to inhibit the yeast."

 

[Eddy Monsoon]

As MHB quoted, only 1 tablet per Gallon required

I'm currently collecting Passion fruit pulp before doing this Pear and Passion fruit wine Recipe

Other wine recipes I've done in the past also only suggest 5/6 tablets per 23 litres, and am not sure why you would need so many more for a Pear cider

 

[postmaster]

As MHB quoted, only 1 tablet per Gallon required

I'm currently collecting Passion fruit pulp before doing this Pear and Passion fruit wine Recipe

Other wine recipes I've done in the past also only suggest 5/6 tablets per 23 litres, and am not sure why you would need so many more for a Pear cider

Okay thats good to know. Did the same quantity last year and used the same yeast and did not have any problems. Next time 1 per 5 litres. It has started to ferment, but very slow, so yes I would say that the Campden tablets have inhibited the yeast growth. Cheers

 

[Eddy Monsoon]

Okay thats good to know. Did the same quantity last year and used the same yeast and did not have any problems. Next time 1 per 5 litres. It has started to ferment, but very slow, so yes I would say that the Campden tablets have inhibited the yeast growth. Cheers

No wuckers , let us know how it goes