Pale Aussie Lager?

[rockeye84]

Hi all,

My dad if visiting soon, hes not a fan of big hoppy ales, or just ales in general, hes more of a pale lager man.

After a few prior batches over the last year & some more scratching around the net, I came up with this recepie.

Thinking of throwing it down this weekend.

Im going for a full stregnth light-ish aussie style lager with subtle malt backbone, with some mild hop aroma, Ive found yeast flavours seem prominent in this light style in a homebrew environment, even with big starters, decanting starter, pitching at ferment temp, tight temp control & a healthy fermentation, thus hoping the late hop addtion will blend with and mask, and or divert attention away from the flavours the yeast put in. Im thinking some filtration might help, but I dont have the right filter & I cant be bothered risking oxidisation.

Anyone else faced the same with yeast flavour out of balance with malt & hops?

Any suggestions on how i could make it better?

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 42.00 l
Boil Size: 46.52 l
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 43.68 l
Final Bottling Vol: 42.00 l
Fermentation: Lager, Three Stage
Date: 14 Mar 2014
Brewer: Rocki Dobra
Equipment: 45L ELECTRIC RIMS
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %


60.00l Rain Water Water 1 -
6.50g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
6.00g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
5.00kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 4 76.9 %
0.20kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 5 3.1 %
0.20kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 6 3.1 %
0.10kg Acid Malt (3.6 EBC) Grain 7 1.5 %
1.00kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 8 15.4 %
8.00g Super Pride [14.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 7.7 IBUs
60.00g Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 10 14.4 IBUs
2.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 11 -
4.40g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 12 -
40.00g Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.0pkg SafLager German Lager (DCL/Fermentis #S-189) 4.5L Starter Yeast 14 -

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.040 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.6 %
Bitterness: 22.1 IBUs
Est Color: 6.9 EBC
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.6 %

Description Step Temperature Step Time
Protein Rest Add 26.00 l of water at 52.4 C 50.0 C 20 min
Saccharification Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 65.0 C over 15 min 65.0 C 120 min
Dex Rest Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 68.0 C over 10 min 68.0 C 20 min
Mash Out Add -0.00 l of water and heat to 75.0 C over 10 min 75.0 C 20 min

4.5L Starter, Chill wort to 10c, Decant Starter, Pitch yeast only, Ferment @ 10c untill 1.012, Raise to 16c for D-Rest, Keg & chill to 2c for 30 days, carb then drink ...

 

[rockeye84]

To all the haters out there of commercial style mega swill... FYI.. Just kegged it yesterday and omg!! Its the best light commercial style lager I have made so far, not even conditioned or carbed, it taste's fantastic, fair bit more flavour than mega swill. Hopefully my old boy enjoys it when he comes to visit soon. Dont get me wrong I love a big bold hoppy ale, but I have had a far few cracks at this style, and finally naied it. yay 2 me :lol:

I must say S-189 is probably one of the best lager yeasts I've used, for this style anyway.

Made a few minor changes to the recipe tho..

Boil: 90mins
Batch Size: 42.00L

60.00 l Rain Water
6.50 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
6.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -

5.30 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 4 80.3 %
0.20 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 5 3.0 %
0.20 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 6 3.0 %
0.10 kg Acid Malt (3.6 EBC) Grain 7 1.5 %
0.80 kg Dextrose (Briess) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 8 12.1 %

50.00 g Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 13.7 IBUs
30.00 g Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 10 7.2 IBUs

2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
5.00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins)

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Measured Original Gravity: 1.039 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.006 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.3 %
Bitterness: 20.9 IBUs
Est Color: 7.3 EBC

Mash Steps
50.0C 20 min
64.0C 120 min
68.0C 20 min
75.0C 20 min

SafLager German Lager (DCL/Fermentis #S-189) 5L Starter + 1 11.5g Pack Dry

Chilled 10c Pitched yeast then raised to 11.5c

Ferment at 11-11.5c for 3 weeks with no d-rest

Keg & condition for 4 weeks

 

[pilgrimspiss]

Anything that you make using a recipe like that will be a hundred times more tasty than a megaswill. Lots of people link a beer style to megaswill....eg pale lager....but its the specific megaswill beers / brands themselves that are shit and give the style a bad name. I compare it to on mass grown cherry tomatoes that you buy from supermarkets, tasteless, watery but still a tomatoe. Grow some yourself, with a little bit of love and attention and taste the difference. Doesn't mean that all cheery tomatoes are shitty, just the mass produced ones.

Good work rockeye84! I bet it tastes beautiful!!

Post a pic in the glass when its ready.

 

[rockeye84]

how do i post a pic? lol im a ahb noob...

 

[Trevandjo]

Why did you decide to leave out the d-rest in the end? Glad it turned out good.
Trev

 

[Bribie G]

You've just about nailed Cascade Premium there, especially with the Hersbrucker.

For a more megaswilly beer, suggest Danish Lager yeast pitch at 10, raise to 13 for a few days then let it drift up to 19 to attenuate and sort out any diacetyl (ten days all up). Then drop it down gradually to 4 for a few days and finish off for a week at -1 until clear.

 

[TheWiggman]

I don't have any valuable input. I'd just like to say that Rocki Dobra is one of the coolest names I've ever heard.

 

[Rieewoldt]

Think this will be the maiden south seas brewery batch. Hope your dad enjoys it mate.

 

[rockeye84]

Why did you decide to leave out the d-rest in the end? Glad it turned out good.
Trev

I felt that it was not needed, tasted zero diacetyl, so didn't bother, in the past I have found raising the temp for a d-rest has had an adverse effect of flavour, pitching at about 10c the raising up to 11.5c kicks off fermentation within hours. wort has to be really well aerated and 5l starter + 1 pack s189 dry. s189 is by far the cleanest lager yeast ive found. next batch im going drop the 40min addition and do 60mins only to about 16ibu, its only flaw is the hop flavour is coming thru a little strong and a touch too bitter, still its supertasty & refreshing. I had several last night.

 

[verysupple]

I felt that it was not needed, tasted zero diacetyl, so didn't bother, in the past I have found raising the temp for a d-rest has had an adverse effect of flavour, pitching at about 10c the raising up to 11.5c kicks off fermentation within hours. wort has to be really well aerated and 5l starter + 1 pack s189 dry. s189 is by far the cleanest lager yeast ive found. next batch im going drop the 40min addition and do 60mins only to about 16ibu, its only flaw is the hop flavour is coming thru a little strong and a touch too bitter, still its supertasty & refreshing. I had several last night.

What kind of adverse effects have you experienced from a diacetyl rest? I'm just curious as I've never heard anyone else say it's caused problems. What's your process for doing a diacetyl rest, as in when, what temp, how long etc?

 

[rockeye84]

Well I used to chill and pitch at about 18-20c then chill over about 12 hours to 10-12c or whatever I was fermenting at, then with 4-8 gravity points to go raise back up to about 16-17c for and let sit for a 2-5 days or until FG was reached, this was my d-rest.

My lagers all used to have a slight sweet like honey note to them, even with a terminal gravity of 1.005/6, after so online reading, I read it was yeast stress throwing off these flavours, there is a particular compound/chemical responsible for the flavour, but i can't recall what it’s called.

So I started chilling my wort to just below ferment temp 9-10c, then decant and pitch my starter slurry straight out of the fridge, then bring up to 11-11.5 for fermentation. I did this for my last five batches of lager, also did a d-rest, the sweet honey like flavour was considerably less but still slightly evident. Some batches more than others.

From what I have read online, most yeast strains that only create low diacetyl won’t create much or any, it if you keep them within their recommended fermentation temp range for the duration of fermentation.

This batch I was thinking.. to hell with the d-rest, as I couldn’t taste any in my beer, only downside it took 3 weeks to reach FG, the higher temp of a d-rest definitely helps it finish off a bit faster.

But absolutly zero off flavours, the only flaw is a whisker too much hop flavour & just a touch too bitter.

I can't be happier! I am going to repeat the procedure next lager brew. Just to be sure I didn’t just fluke it this time..

Anyway, my conclusion is the d-rest was my issue..

 

[TheWiggman]

The big difference would have been the temp you pitched the yeast at. 20°C is far too high for a lager yeast and starting at 10°C would have surely made a difference.
Have you always used the same lager yeast? Like verysupple said, getting off flavours from a diacetyl rest seems counter-intuitive. The primary purpose of the rest is to reduce off flavours. Though in saying that if it works for you, carry on.

 

[rockeye84]

i have used

Saflager W34/70 - huge honey flavour, i have had people ask me if i have used honey in my brew. will not use again... ever!
Saflager S-23 - kinda spicey or sharp, no too bad
Saflager S-189 - Very neutral, propably my fave
Wyeast 2007 pilzen - not too bad cant really remeber what it was like
Wyeast 2042 danish - very nice, clean etc no diacetyl
Wyeast 2124 Boh lager- heaps of diacetyl, too malty for the style im trying to brew..

I will be using S189 or 2042 from now on i reckon. Cant really tell much diff between the two, if anything i find s189 a bit cleaner, + its dry & keeps for ages..