Off flavour - soapy wheat

[damoninja]

Howdy everybody

Brewed a lawnmower wheat beer in November for well, something to smash on hot days. The 2 kegged beers are nice, it's got a neutral wheat character. Hazy as you'd expect.

The bottles, wtf? They're completely clear and have a fairly distinct soapy taste. Never had such a difference from bottle to keg.

The first keg I drank was force carbed, the one I'm drinking now is naturally carbed, so whatever it is, is specifically affecting the bottles.

Grain bill, gave it a 90 min boil on account of DMS but nothing like the bottle taste in the keg... 50L batch. About 5.2%

Magnum @ 60 to 22 IBUs
4500g malted wheat
4000g pilsner malt
1300g honey
450g honey malt
WB-06 (yeah I know but I got it for nothing and it seemed OK)

Usual bottle sanitation, they're all clean and hit with star san before filling.

Edit: Fixed kegged bees typo. Though it does have honey in it so I'm sure there's bee particulate in there.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Where did you store your bottles? How did you bottle? (bottling bucket/bulk prime or direct from fermenter?) It could be temperature related (ie you cooked your yeast a bit with some autolysis) or it could be an infection of some sort that causes soapy flavours (some wild yeasts can do this).

 

[damoninja]

Bottled direct from fermenter, bottles stored in the same room as the others, completely dark room. The keg was stored in the same conditions but managed to pull through just fine without any of these characteristics.

Temp was the only thing I could think of but as the second keg wasn't affected, nor have any of my other beers (ever) been impacted like this, even the lighter ones stored in the same room. Hardly optimal storage conditions but I haven't got a cellar, cool room or dedicated storage fridge.

Oh well.

 

[dr K]

Star San is a wonderful product, maybe you screwed up the dilution, I know don't fear the foam, but the surfacant in it is a standard ingredient in laundry powders, wild guess, but.....

K

 

[damoninja]

Star San is a wonderful product, maybe you screwed up the dilution, I know don't fear the foam, but the surfacant in it is a standard ingredient in laundry powders, wild guess, but.....

K

I use the same batch of star san for everything. I make in 20L cubes and draw when I need it, 29mL to 19L

Same batch has been used on maybe 5 beers, same also used on the kegs and bottles...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[bradsbrew]

I use the same batch of star san for everything. I make in 20L cubes and draw when I need it, 29mL to 19L

Same batch has been used on maybe 5 beers, same also used on the kegs and bottles...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think Mr K, was referring to dosage, easier to OD a bottle in ratio to a keg.
Did you ferment the whole 50L then fill 2 kegs and put the left overs in bottles?
If so, is it possible that the yeast was stressed (over/under pitched) which can throw soap and the bottles have received a big hit of yeast?

 

[wereprawn]

Did you use a cleaning agent on your bottles ?

 

[damoninja]

I think Mr K, was referring to dosage, easier to OD a bottle in ratio to a keg.
Did you ferment the whole 50L then fill 2 kegs and put the left overs in bottles?
If so, is it possible that the yeast was stressed (over/under pitched) which can throw soap and the bottles have received a big hit of yeast?

Bottles get drained upside down, I know a bit's OK but I don't leave 20mL in there or anything like that...

And you're right I do bottle the last bit, though an under pitch I doubt as it was low OG and 2 packs used dry. Suppose it could have been **** yeast packs but they were in date and I mean it's dry yeast the **** lasts.

I got the best part of a case worth, after drawing 2 kegs worth. About 9L left. The bottles are clear and I mean CLEAR, not just clear for a wheat, there's stuff all yeast / sediment in the bottles.

It will probably never happen again.

 

[galactaphonic]

I've read that Caprylic Acid can give a soapy flavour (as well as "goaty, sweaty, tallowy, waxy, vegetable oil") and is "believed to be by-products of yeast metabolism, produced during lipid synthesis by the yeast. They are released into wort either due to leakage through ethanol-damaged cell membranes or due to autolysis".

http://www.carolinabrewmasters.com/PDF/Complete_Beer_Fault_Guide.pdf

 

[damoninja]

Last one of these bottles I'd opened it seemed to have improved somewhat...

I know that the soapiness is literally actual soap (the salt of a fatty acid) so it could well be on account of either of these things, the thing that's got me stumped however is why the bottles and not the kegs .. :blink: :blink: