Nsw Homebrew Competition 2005

[bigfridge]

Now I'm completely confused :blink: The placings (1st, 2nd and 3rd) were posted online a week ago and neither of my 2 beers entered earned a top 3 placing. I hadn't thought about the Nationals or anything else for that matter and was awaiting my results sheets. First page in my results envelope that arrived yesterday was a note that reads and I quote:

...

This really is getting unnecessarily confusing I think. If someone has made an honest mistake can they just acknowledge such and give brewers in my position clear and unambiguous direction on whether or not to submit? Preferably a head comp organiser?

Thanks.

Confused :blink:

Shawn.

[post="81112"][/post]​

Shawn (and anyone else that has become confused),

Unfortunately you left out the most usefull part of the note that I sent all those that I had been told qualified. It is at the bottom of the note and reads "For further information please contact Mike Lupold ..." and gives his email address and phone number. I suggest you phone him as he is not very good answering eMails.

I fear that this is the only way that any confusion will be dealt with as there is nothing that I, or the collective minds gathered here can do. In this case Mike is the Judge, Jury and executioner.

All that I can say is that he has approved the list of qualifiers that I sent him, and this list was used as the basis for the notes included with the score sheets. It is also BTW the reason the score sheets were delayed by 4 days.

If you don't believe what I have sent you - please just follow the instructions and contact Mike.

The good news is that there will be no such confusion next year because I won't be attempting to work out who has qualified for what - you will need to work it out for yourself.

Good Brewing,
David

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

As far as I understand these rules the top 3 beers of each class in each state go through to the Nationals providing they score at least 60%.

So if you came 4th, 5th or even 10th with 60% you still don't qualify.

C&B
TDA

[post="81103"][/post]​

Sorry, but this is not the rules as we have brewers who came 2nd and 3rd in NSW being excluded from entering the Nationals. I agree with you that this is how I read the scant published information, but the AABA organising committee has chosen to interpret it differently.

David

[post="81129"][/post]​

David, the only way those brewers coming 2nd or 3rd would not qualify is if they scored less than 60%. Is this what happened or are there other rules that I don't know about?

C&B
TDA

 

[Guest Lurker]

At the risk if adding to the confusion - is it related to the categories being different between the NSW and national comps and having to translate between the two?

 

[AndrewQLD]

At the risk if adding to the confusion - is it related to the categories being different between the NSW and national comps and having to translate between the two?

[post="81139"][/post]​

You maybe onto something there GL, if so, it shows the need for a uniform competition layout between states.
Andrew

 

[bigfridge]

As far as I understand these rules the top 3 beers of each class in each state go through to the Nationals providing they score at least 60%.

So if you came 4th, 5th or even 10th with 60% you still don't qualify.

C&B
TDA

[post="81103"][/post]​

Sorry, but this is not the rules as we have brewers who came 2nd and 3rd in NSW being excluded from entering the Nationals. I agree with you that this is how I read the scant published information, but the AABA organising committee has chosen to interpret it differently.

David

[post="81129"][/post]​

David, the only way those brewers coming 2nd or 3rd would not qualify is if they scored less than 60%. Is this what happened or are there other rules that I don't know about?

C&B
TDA

[post="81135"][/post]​

TDA,

The 60% cutoff is the only thing that is clear - a beer must score above this to be considered. Where the problem has occured is that Mike insisted that the AABA categories be used (even though the published rules says ' in a beer Category at an endorsed championship' no mention of the AABA categories) and this required our entries to be resorted into their categories. Now it is important to note that this only affects some Australian styles and things like Low and High alcohol styles. The differences are minor. In NSW we tried to use the AABA guidelines last year but found them wanting. We believe that the AABA have not kept pace with changes in international beer styles and judge education.

One example is Imperial Stout. NSW (quite sensibly I believe) judges these as stouts - the AABA considers them Strong Ales. Resorting everything to use their style categories has pushed the 'real' placegetters in our Strong Ale category out of the Nationals. I argued strongly against this but Mike insisted that this 'was the rules'.

David

 

[Ross]

Thanks for that David, makes it clear at least....

 

[Gough]

Yes, thanks for that David.

Shawn.

 

[Weizguy]

Thanks for all the work you put in for the NSW comp, David, and all the follow-up work too. I hope that you don't get the impression that people are having a go at you personally.
I can, however, empathise with both sides: brewers and organisers. It seems to me that the confusion/ distress lies at the National comp level. But, for goodness sake, don't let it ruin the spirit of the competition.
There is no longer a Homebrew comp run in conjunction with the Newcastle Show, due to organisational issues, and I'd hate to see the big comps go the same way.

Gough, get your beer in! Who knows, the Nat comp might like your beer better than the State, or conversely, as I found in the past.

BTW, I'm happy to advise that I scored a 4th in the Strong/ Old Ales, with some very encouraging feedback.

I suppose the organisations involved need to get together and reconcile the differences between ABAA and BJCP rules (if possible).

Seth's 2 cents

 

[bigfridge]

At the risk if adding to the confusion - is it related to the categories being different between the NSW and national comps and having to translate between the two?

[post="81139"][/post]​

You maybe onto something there GL, if so, it shows the need for a uniform competition layout between states.
Andrew

[post="81142"][/post]​

All states need to be able to adapt the National guidlines to suit their local conditions and all do. As an example, we used the BJCP guidlines as a basis and then added the recognised Australian styles and sorted them into 11 Categories. We did not use all 13 AABA cats as we don't beleive that they line up with the realities of the international beer styles.

QLD uses their own totally different sytles, other states add their own restrictions on who can enter etc.

My last comment is that it is not differences in the styles, but the absence of clear rules that leads to the confusion. The AABA is free to set whatever conditions on entries that they like - I just wish that they would let us know what they are !

Anyway, that is enough from me ......

David

 

[bigfridge]

Thanks for all the work you put in for the NSW comp, David, and all the follow-up work too. I hope that you don't get the impression that people are having a go at you personally.
I can, however, empathise with both sides: brewers and organisers. It seems to me that the confusion/ distress lies at the National comp level. But, for goodness sake, don't let it ruin the spirit of the competition.
There is no longer a Homebrew comp run in conjunction with the Newcastle Show, due to organisational issues, and I'd hate to see the big comps go the same way.

Gough, get your beer in! Who knows, the Nat comp might like your beer better than the State, or conversely, as I found in the past.

BTW, I'm happy to advise that I scored a 4th in the Strong/ Old Ales, with some very encouraging feedback.

I suppose the organisations involved need to get together and reconcile the differences between ABAA and BJCP rules (if possible).

Seth's 2 cents

[post="81146"][/post]​

Hi Guys,

No, I don't take any of this personally - thanks for your encouragment and support. But I do share everyones frustration in not having a clear set of rules for the running of our premiere competition.

We are always happy to talk about improving the comps etc, but all that I have got so far is that the AABA guidlines took 9 years to develop and have not needed changing for the last 3 years.

But I ask where are their German Rye beer, American Stout or Imperial IPA ? And can anyone really argue that there is such a thing as an Australian Lager (aren't these just a local interpretation of the international Magalager style) or an distinctly Australian Wheat ?

Homebrew at Newcastle show ? I have only lived in Newcastle for 30 years (and brewed here for about 20) and knew nothing of it. I did judge at a Comp held as part of the Tocal Field day but that was years ago.

Thanks again,
David

 

[Weizguy]

Homebrew at Newcastle show ? I have only lived in Newcastle for 30 years (and brewed here for about 20) and knew nothing of it. I did judge at a Comp held as part of the Tocal Field day but that was years ago.

Thanks again,
David

[post="81150"][/post]​

David,

To answer your question, for the information of the forum, and certainly not as a thread hijack...

The last brew comp @ Newcastle Regional Show was held in 1999, and was advertised in the local newspaper (Herald, IIRC).
It was the first comp I ever entered, and I got a 2nd (red ribbon) in the Wheat beers, and Frogg (of this forum) scored a red ribbon with his Stout. There were a few entries from Sydney, as I recall, and they took the lion's share of the prizes.

Results of the comp were also reported in the newspaper, and I still have my copy of the results page.

BTW, the comp folded as a result of lack of sponsors, and possibly judges too. The organisers of the last event in 1999 had some negative feedback IIRC, and decided that it was too much trouble to help with the 2000 comp.

Keen to resurrect the event, perhaps? If so, count me in!!!!!!! :beerbang:
Sure would be a lot of other Novocastrians willing to assist.
Mark at the lhbs was thinking of running a comp next year. Food for thought.

Seth the historian

 

[bigfridge]

Homebrew at Newcastle show ? I have only lived in Newcastle for 30 years (and brewed here for about 20) and knew nothing of it. I did judge at a Comp held as part of the Tocal Field day but that was years ago.

Thanks again,
David

[post="81150"][/post]​

The last brew comp @ Newcastle Regional Show was held in 1999, and was advertised in the local newspaper (Herald, IIRC).

...

Results of the comp were also reported in the newspaper, and I still have my copy of the results page.

Keen to resurrect the event, perhaps? If so, count me in!!!!!!! :beerbang:
Sure would be a lot of other Novocastrians willing to assist.
Mark at the lhbs was thinking of running a comp next year. Food for thought.

Seth the historian

[post="81174"][/post]​

Sorry, but I don't read newspapers .....

Stay tuned - I think you will see at least 2 comps in Newcastle next year, plus some more judge training. So we will need plenty of volunteers .....

David

 

[Tony]

David.

I was going to send you an email but i will publicly appolagise for posting the e-mail info,

Sorry.

I didnt post it out of spite, i was just trying to give some people an idea of what was going on.

and well the catfight comment.......... well opinions are like aresholes..... everyones got one and some stick out more than others.

I must say for the record that with all the emails i sent you and mike i got a quick reply from you every time, the copy of the email was all i got from mike and got confused myself about the "which beers qualify" issue.

Your posts have cleared up a lot of questions for a lot of people and i thank you for the positive replies.

I have run state championships in the shooting sport and i do have a bit of an idea of the preasures. Everyone has an opioion that is right or a protest that has to go their way and along the way the work put in by the organisers behind the sceens can be lost in arguments and frustration.

I hope i didnt push too hard for the answers David. It was never my intention to piss any one off.

Cheers

Tony