No Chilling In A Fermenter

[losp]

Recently I have been reading up on no-chilling....
In my most recent brew (which was my first AG) i used a home made immersion chiller, which took ages and wasted a hole heap of water. So much so that I decided not to do it again. So far all of the information i have come across, suggestions the usage of a 'cube'... no problem we have two 4WDs and have there fore got about 4x 20L cubes. But what i am wondering is, do i need to use one of these cubes/ As they only hold 20L and i cant be bothered washing and sanitizing them.

What i have planned to do is as follows (i will mostly be brewing in afternoon - night):

- Chuck finnings in 10-15 mins to go
- At flame out use immersion chiller, for long enough to have cleaned out my esky/mashtun and any other plastic fermenter I want to clean.
- Tap out to fermenter A and place in temperature controlled fridge set to desired pitching temperature
- Tap out to fermenter B the next day and pitch yeast, place in temp fridge

Is there any flaws to this plan?

Thanks.
Losp

 

[jonocarroll]

<snip> i cant be bothered washing and sanitizing them.

Is it really all that much trouble to make sure they're clean? The hot wort will pasteurize the cube, so it doesn't have to be 100.0% sanitized.

- Chuck finnings in 10-15 mins to go

I hope you mean Irish Moss (whirlfloc) or similar... finings will do nothing in the kettle.

- At flame out use immersion chiller, for long enough to have cleaned out my esky/mashtun and any other plastic fermenter I want to clean.
- Tap out to fermenter A and place in temperature controlled fridge set to desired pitching temperature
- Tap out to fermenter B the next day and pitch yeast, place in temp fridge

The problem here is getting the wort to pitching temp in a fridge. It won't happen fast. I'm also concerned about the racking of unfermented wort - surely an infection opportunity there.

Is all of that any easier than keeping a well-rinsed cube clean?

 

[brettprevans]

what was the problem with the chiller? i assume it was a coil chiller in which you run tap water trhough it? to assist in cooling run the water slowly not full speed. it takes up more of the heat that way.

the only problem with that is whether the fementors are made from heat grade plastic. and over a period of time you might get some issues with either weakening of the fermentor or something.....

in saying that, I have done exactly what your proposing a couple of times before i got my chiller. exept i didnt even change fermentors. i was lazy and just pitched once at right temp. my fidge hated me. went from a nice 6C to about 24C in a few hours and took forever to get it back down. mind you that was for a lager.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I have transferred beer at flameout to fermenter while still hot and pitched yeast the next day

As long as you clean the fermenter well and pitch yeast as soon as pitching temps are reached you'll be fine

I used glad wrap on the fermenter too as the wort will shrink in size and suck in anything you have in an airlock

Cheers

 

[troopa]

2 things there
1. the 20L cube will hold 23 litres of hot wort

2. And as i just found out (was Busy and lazy) cooling in the fermenter leaves alot of room for nasties to get in .. eg. Cockroaches
and found it one morning fermenting by itself with a floating cockroach in the wort

Time to re-look at my technique (glad wrap) but this is a first and has been far from a usual week for me

Tom

 

[troopa]

As CTK said
That is my usual method and have had no problems with it at all and see no problems with it
BUT if you have a big brew day and intend on being lazy do take the 30secs to ensure your fermenter is totally sealed and secured

Tom

 

[losp]

Thanks for the reply's guy i just really wasn't sure what the difference between a cheapo 20L cube and a fermenter made of slightly less cheap material.
So the risk is that it might get infected while it is cooling, because there is a little grommet hole in the fermenter? Have i interpreted all that correctly? What about if i plug the hole with a chopstick? I would have thought colling it in the fridge could easily be done in 12 - 24 hours.

 

[bigfridge]

Recently I have been reading up on no-chilling....
In my most recent brew (which was my first AG) i used a home made immersion chiller, which took ages and wasted a hole heap of water. So much so that I decided not to do it again. So far all of the information i have come across, suggestions the usage of a 'cube'... no problem we have two 4WDs and have there fore got about 4x 20L cubes. But what i am wondering is, do i need to use one of these cubes/ As they only hold 20L and i cant be bothered washing and sanitizing them.

What i have planned to do is as follows (i will mostly be brewing in afternoon - night):

- Chuck finnings in 10-15 mins to go
- At flame out use immersion chiller, for long enough to have cleaned out my esky/mashtun and any other plastic fermenter I want to clean.
- Tap out to fermenter A and place in temperature controlled fridge set to desired pitching temperature
- Tap out to fermenter B the next day and pitch yeast, place in temp fridge

Is there any flaws to this plan?

Thanks.
Losp

Step 2 - 'use immersion chiller' means that you ARE chilling and hence exposing your beer to a large infection risk.

No chilling means just that - do not chill before packaging. Read up on making Jam or Pickles and you will get the idea.

 

[losp]

Step 2 - 'use immersion chiller' means that you ARE chilling and hence exposing your beer to a large infection risk.

No chilling means just that - do not chill before packaging. Read up on making Jam or Pickles and you will get the idea.

Ok, so there are some issues then with mixing the 2 strategies?

 

[RetsamHsam]

Ok, so there are some issues then with mixing the 2 strategies?

Yeah the idea is that by transferring the wort while it is hot you minimise the risk of infection (read up on pasteurisation).

I also wouldn't put the fermenter in the fridge until it had cooled somewhat.. The fridge is an insulated box and by putting 20L+ of hot wort in there you are putting the compressor on the backfoot. Nice cold concrete overnight then into the fridge in the morning with the yeast is the way to go IMO

Cheers

 

[Steve]

Sell your immersion chiller. Rack boiling wort from kettle to fermenter A. Leave overnight at room temp. Rack cooled wort to fermenter B WITH LOTS OF SPLASHING. Pitch yeast. Easy as and works very well for me.
Cheers
Steve

Edit: But if you want to chill using your chiller, turn the tap pressure down very low and stir the wort. When I used a chiller I had the tap on full blast and im too embarrassed to say how much water I used. Peteoz77 showed me that you only need about 60 litres worth of water with stirring to get the temp down within half an hour and I pitched the yeast the same day.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Ok, so there are some issues then with mixing the 2 strategies?

Yes - the "cubes" aren't used just for fun. They are used to address some issues. As is the technique of filling it as hot as possible.

With cubes you get the following things you don't by no-chilling in your fermenter.

• You can squeeze out all the air minimising potential oxidation of the hot wort
• Once all the air is out - ALL the surfaces of the cube are in contact with the hot wort and this helps insure the cube is as sanitary as possible.
• The cube is sealed - when it cools air does not get sucked back into it. And therefore neither do any bugs that might be in that air.
• A hot packed cube does not have to be used straight away, you can ferment it at your leisure, days, weeks even months after your brewday.

Partially chilling the wort and also not sealing it up... just makes it all the more vulnerable to infection, and doesn't really achieve any "good" results to balance the risks.

Putting a hot cube/fermenter in your fridge will also achieve little except working the guts out of your fridge. It will still not chill quick enough to give you any of the perceived benefits of rapid chilling.

So - if you want to No-Chill in your fermenter, put the wort in there as soon as your whirlpool has settled, stuff a cotton ball in the bunghole to keep out roaches etc

Me - I prefer to use a cube because I think the stuff in the list above adds up to enough benefit to pay back the small amount of extra effort, but I have no-chilled in a fermenter before with success.

Thirsty

 

[WarmBeer]

Quick tip with no-chilling in your fermenter. Put your airlock and grommet in the usual hole in the top of the lid, but fill the airlock with (cheap) vodka where you would normally use pre-boiled water.

The vodka will kill anything that gets in it (40% alc/vol) and in the event the shrinking effect of the wort causes enough negative pressure to suck any of the vodka back into the fermenter, it will be unnoticeable, and fully sanitary.

Cubes are still better, but.

 

[Steve]

Dont put anything in your airlock. Put some glad wrap over the top with an elastic band.

 

[reviled]

Dont put anything in your airlock. Put some glad wrap over the top with an elastic band.

I dunno if id trust that for no-chilling, I can see it for fermentation purposes tho...

 

[Steve]

I dunno if id trust that for no-chilling, I can see it for fermentation purposes tho...

works for me rev

 

[reviled]

works for me rev

Sweet :icon_cheers:

I wouldve thought youd be a chiller by now steve

 

[Steve]

Sweet :icon_cheers:

I wouldve thought youd be a chiller by now steve

I leave them outdoors overnight because the fermenters are too hot to pick up.
I used to chill but hated how much water I had to use.
Cheers
Steve

 

[FlavaFlav]

I also wouldn't put the fermenter in the fridge until it had cooled somewhat..

I'd have to second this, my fridge struggled for about 12 hours, its quite a strange feeling to open a fridge door and have it feel like an oven.

I heard something at Bitter and Twisted for chilling cubes, chuck them in a pool.

 

[murrayr]

when i was researching chillers and i noticed how much waste comes from immersion chillers compared to plate chillers, it was a no brainer. i can cool down a 23 litre batch to pitching rate using only enough water to clean my mashing equipment, my pot and with very little left over for the garden. plate chillers are far more efficient in my humble opinion