Newkie Brown Help

[Mickthe]

Hi all,

Need some opinions on whether i should do a kit and bits, or an extract brew, for my English Brown Ale attempt.

I have seen one extract recipe on the site, but mostly kits with variations on hops, liquid malts some with Morgans Caramalt, and grain steep either crystal, or choc malt, or a combo.

Out of eleven odd brews i have done a few that were ok but from the first tastings i knew they should have had more of this, or none of that, and was stuck with all that beer that wasn't bad enough to tip out but drinking it over the decent beer was an effort.

So i was tempted with my recipe as well, to maybe do a split batch, with 100% crystal steep and maybe golden syrup or treacle in one, and choc malt or a 50/50 choc and crystal, and some belgian candi sugar in the other.

Whichever turns out best i would run with next time..... anyone else done split batches to fasttrak recipe refinements?

Maybe i just need a good recipe?!

Thanks in advance

Mick.

 

[DKS]

Hi all,

Need some opinions on whether i should do a kit and bits, or an extract brew, for my English Brown Ale attempt.

I have seen one extract recipe on the site, but mostly kits with variations on hops, liquid malts some with Morgans Caramalt, and grain steep either crystal, or choc malt, or a combo.

Out of eleven odd brews i have done a few that were ok but from the first tastings i knew they should have had more of this, or none of that, and was stuck with all that beer that wasn't bad enough to tip out but drinking it over the decent beer was an effort.

So i was tempted with my recipe as well, to maybe do a split batch, with 100% crystal steep and maybe golden syrup or treacle in one, and choc malt or a 50/50 choc and crystal, and some belgian candi sugar in the other.

Whichever turns out best i would run with next time..... anyone else done split batches to fasttrak recipe refinements?

Maybe i just need a good recipe?!

Thanks in advance

Mick.

G'day Mick.
I reckon you need to rethink or research your recipe mate. Have a look at some AG ones and try to convert to Kits & bits or extract.

Where are you in Brisbane? There is a good recipe for a NB at Oasis HB at Kedron on a recipe sheet they give out for free.
I did it myself some time ago and had a very good result but it needs some age on it to be its best. I may have it here somewhere Ill have a browse & post if I find it. As you mention above, similar, it used Morgans Royal Oak kit and a 1kg Caramalt can from memory.

A couple of points on your post.
100% crystal, no don't do it!
Choc in NB, no, not to my knowledge.
Belgian candy sugar, not required.
Nothing wrong splitting to smaller batches but its no use splitting a wort if its no good to start with, if you know what I mean.

Good luck with it. NB is a nice beer and worth the effort.
Cheers Daz

 

[Mickthe]

Thanks Daz

Yes i see what you're saying with splitting the wort.

I did find that recipe..........1 x can Morgans Royal Oak, 1 x can Morgans Caramalt, 300gm LDME, 200gm Dex, Premium Ale Yeast.

Also found this one from Boddingtons Best......."Not exactly K&K but according to my brewlog this was quite a nice nookie style brown".

2.5k Morgans unhopped pale
400g Morgans roasted black malt
500g crystal malt (145ebc) steeped

boil 60 min
40g goldings @ 60min
20g fuggles @ 10min

That's the closest I've got notes on and I had one of the last bottles not long ago and tasted ok..

Oh yeast used was 1469 or 1968 (have made this with both)

I do also have K&K clones in my log but all have notes saying "not even close"
So i will not post them as you'd be bitterly disappointed.

The Brewcraft Recipe for this one has a Brown Ale tin, Light LME, 100-200g Choc Malt steep, and 400g Brown Sugar. (This maybe has confused me as i also saw someone post a recipe that was a little dark in colour as it also had choc malt, but tasted good)

If i don't have a good whack of Crystal will i have the sweetness req'd for the style with just the Caramalt LME?

Mick.

 

[manticle]

Hi all,

Need some opinions on whether i should do a kit and bits, or an extract brew, for my English Brown Ale attempt.

I have seen one extract recipe on the site, but mostly kits with variations on hops, liquid malts some with Morgans Caramalt, and grain steep either crystal, or choc malt, or a combo.

Out of eleven odd brews i have done a few that were ok but from the first tastings i knew they should have had more of this, or none of that, and was stuck with all that beer that wasn't bad enough to tip out but drinking it over the decent beer was an effort.

So i was tempted with my recipe as well, to maybe do a split batch, with 100% crystal steep and maybe golden syrup or treacle in one, and choc malt or a 50/50 choc and crystal, and some belgian candi sugar in the other.

Whichever turns out best i would run with next time..... anyone else done split batches to fasttrak recipe refinements?

Maybe i just need a good recipe?!

Thanks in advance

Mick.

Can you give us some more information?

When you say 100% crystal do you mean you're intending to use all crystal malt as a base and add in a bit of golden syrup?

Do you have a kit base or an extract base? Do you have a hopping schedule?

Making a beer entirely from crystal malt will cost you a lot of money as you will need a lot to get a decent amount of sugar. It will also be over the top, crazy sweet. I know English Browns have a crystal sweetness but they also have a pale malt base and some bittering hops to balance it out.

If making an kit/extract version try:

1x tin Coopers real ale
1.5x kg Dried malt extract
200g caravienne (if you can find it)
100g light or medium crystal
50g choc malt
200g dextrose
10 g fuggles hops


Steep grains in about 1.5 litres of hot water - around 70 degrees for 1 hour.
Strain liquid into a pot, add another 1.5 litres of hot water, rinse grains and strain again.
Discard grains

Add contents of kit tin to liquid and top up to 10 litres. Bring to boil, add fuggles, boil gently for 50 minutes.

Add detxrose, stir in light dried extract, boil further 10 minutes.

Chill, covered in water batch to below 30 degrees, add to fermenter, top up to 20-23 litres, check temp is below 25 then pitch yeast. Use Nottingham, US04 or if you want to try a liquid - one of the wyeast English liquids like Thames Valley or whitbread or london ale.

Should turn out around 4.9 % if made to 22 litres, 21 SRM and the hops should contribute 10 IBU to a tin that I believe is around 20 when made up to 23 litres. Dextrose should just add in a tiny touch of perceived dryness as my experience of extract driven brews is that they can easily underattenuate and become cloying. The hops will help there too.

 

[Mickthe]

Thanks Manticle for the recipe.

Sorry to be so confucious.........my question was initially just going to be whether making a Kits and Bits would be just as good as an Extract brew, i have been led to believe that extract brewing (and then AG) is a cut above in a lot of styles. For example, i have done two stout brews with a kit and lots of extras, and they are really good even at only 2 mths.

Then i thought I may as well ask about the recipes i have seen as well.

I had seen a few recipes based on kits, but they seemed to differ quite a lot in the grain being steeped, choc vs crystal. I had seen the extract recipe from Bods Best so had that too......and wasn't sure what on earth to try.

Because there are so many recipes floating around, i thought about a split batch with different little extras in each to see what worked best, like with your Dex suggestion, just to see how it went. I think i will scrap that idea cause i think whatever i do it will be drinkable!

I was referring to a crystal grain steep only, which i have done for other brews. I have used the software before also, to do hop schedules as well and was thinking Fuggles and/or Goldings. (Just a late addition or small amt if doing a kit) Was going to use S-04 or my first foray into liquid with an english ale yeast.

If i can't get the Caravienna should i sub in anything else?

Cheers

Mick.

 

[RobboMC]

Hi Mickthe,

many issues to write about -

being 'forced' to drink and entire batch of fairly ordinary beer is the motivation that drives you to brew better.
Every single bottle you open of it you are reminded of that mistake/short cut/bad judgement you made. I once
made a very poor Oktoberfest attempt and ended up with 50 bottles of it, took nearly a year to go thru.

English Brown are great beers IMHO and can be easily made with kits & bits, as you can pretty much just steep
1/2 kg of crystal and boil some Fuggles and/or Goldings into the resulting wort and add to any kit within reason and get something brown and english. Question is what kit and what bits.

If you disect manticle's good looking recipe you will see that kits n bits means no sugar, dex or enhancer.
So it's a step up from just K&K to all-malt additions.

If you are trying to clone Newcastle Brown I have tasted it and it's quite light witha smooth sweetness about it,
but as a beer it's pretty ordinary, you can do better with kits and bits.

As for kits, try the new Coopers English Bitter, or Muntons Nut Brown Ale which is pretty black so only add light malts unless you want Porter.

Now after all that, NB is also a great place to get away from kits as the colour and caramel flavours can mask any slight off-flavours you might get. My first kit-free beer was exactly this, and it turned out great. If you do want to
step up from kits and bits here's a good way to start:

Volume 23 litres abv 4.9%

2 kg Morgans Caramalt ( Unhopped )
3/4 kg Light Liquid malt
1 kg light dry malt
1/2 kg crystal grain steeped 60 min

25g Golden Cluster boiled 45 min
50 g Goldings ( 25 @ 45min, 25 @ 10 min )
35g Fuggles ( 15 @ 15 min, 20 @ 5 min )

English Ale dried yeast

This was better than any kit beer I've had and twice as good as commercial Newcastle Brown.

 

[manticle]

Caravienne is for toasty/nutty character. The only other malts that I can think of that add that quality will need to be mashed - vienna and biscuit are the two that spring to mind. You could get away with steeping a small amount of vienna as long as you can maintain a temp between 60 and 70 for about 30 minutes. Biscuit would need to be held at that temp with another base malt and might be a bit less simple.

 

[brettprevans]

given that its small amounts of grain, you could throw it into a pot, put on the stove and leave the flame going on low and monitor temp. i used to do this when making extract beers and moving into partials. just buy a little base ale malt to help the biscuit convert and your beers will thank you for it.

 

[Mickthe]

RobboMC - thanks so much for the recipe ideas (I have been drinking a big mistake from Brew 2 and boy have i learnt some hard lessons)
Manticle - i'll see if i can get that toast note with the Caravienne and Biscuit, would give this style a lot and some uniqueness.
CityMorgue2 - great tip, i will have to see if i can source a small amount of base ale malt?

I think i can move fwd with something from everyone's help!

Mick.

PS. English Ale YEast (dried) is that S-04 or something else?