New Brewery Build

[Moad]

Just hope to hell they don't get your order wrong. Was a real pain getting a refund for $17 of parts they didn't send

 

[SBOB]

Just hope to hell they don't get your order wrong. Was a real pain getting a refund for $17 of parts they didn't send

did you raise the issue via ebay/paypal resolution or just message them?

Getting a full refund from china sellers is pretty easy with an 'item not received' claim (though if you received most, this is kind of a dick move), and partial refunds are usually ok if you just spell out the basic request via the ebay resolution process... Rarely do you get an email response, just a paypal refund appearing (at least in my experience)

I've done many an item not received claim for items coming from China without issue for things arriving broken, completely wrong order or just never turn up at all

 

[Moad]

Yeah I messaged outside the resolution process first and after 20 or so times repeating myself I logged a case. I made the mistake of closing the case on the promise they would send the parts. Luckily I could raise a case on another part of similar value and they gave me the refund straight away for that one.

I'll know next time

 

[Tex N Oz]

did you raise the issue via ebay/paypal resolution or just message them?

Getting a full refund from china sellers is pretty easy with an 'item not received' claim (though if you received most, this is kind of a dick move), and partial refunds are usually ok if you just spell out the basic request via the ebay resolution process... Rarely do you get an email response, just a paypal refund appearing (at least in my experience)

I've done many an item not received claim for items coming from China without issue for things arriving broken, completely wrong order or just never turn up at all

It almost seems like a way of business for many of these import sellers, 2014online included. A couple of the others are AUWarehouse and av-rf.
Solaluna88 are FAST shippers with decent prices and STAY AWAY from beautyzz2009 or any seller that also sells rubber dicks and crotchless panties as that's my gauge as to how hopeless they'll be dealing with tube fittings; with a high degree of accuracy.
2014online will send you 95% of what you've ordered, almost always leaving out an item or 2 hoping that you either don't catch it, or don't make a deal out of it.
Chatting with them via email is almost always a lost cause. They'll either argue or ignore. In Moad's case I got the ***** because it was $12 worth of parts they left out of a $400 order and they still argued.
If we were trying to scam, we'd be morons to pick the least expensive part in the box to claim on.
The way I deal with them is to systematically leave them a quick message and within 24 business hours or upon arguement, raise a claim. Eventually they mark your name on their computer with the Chinese equivalent of "He not happy no happy package counting" and they quit trying it on.
It should also be noted that I've had a few parts tested from various Chinese suppliers and be very wary of what alloy of stainless you'll be receiving. If it's a critical system that requires 30RA finishing or certification, don't bother. Look at a Taiwan or Thailand supplier instead. For brewers, anything austenitic will work and it usually falls inside that category somewhere but don't spend extra on the 316 when the 304 will work fine as you probably won't be getting either to specs.

 

[Mardoo]

I, too, have had good experiences with Solaluna88. Never had an issue with them over 6 orders. Well, there was one when something arrived crushed, but they refunded immediately, no questions.

 

[Tex N Oz]

Not to jack this thread, but I just received ANOTHER wrong order from Online2014. Ridiculous.
We'll see how this plays out.
I ordered an Ø89mm clamp cover and received a Ø102mm clamp cover. I need to find a local supplier with decent pricing.



I've requested a refund. Let's see how this goes.

 

[Moad]

ITS ALIVE!

I got the control panel wired up over the weekend, tested pumps and valves. I ended up going with the Chugger Nano Pump...that thing is a BEAST!

I've got to get the elements wired up and then I'm ready for a brew. Programming has been done but not tested yet, will be running some water through this week to test.

It is unbelievably satisfying to be able to control and monitor the brew with a phone, tablet or laptop. The BCS utilities allows me to quickly change all times and temps prior to a brew, there is someone working on importing from beersmith which will be incredible.

Still lots to do once it is up and running, hard pipe, replace remaining threaded hose barbs with tri clover fittings, add float switches and improve automation. For now I will just need to manually fill HLT and MT and then click a button to move from strike heating on to mash then to boil and finally chill processes. Then I'll need to turn on the tap for chilling and turn it off once the whirlpool stops, finally back on for the run out into fermenters. I may end up not bothering with further automation for a while but the plumbing is definitely something I'd like to improve soon.

I put some M8 connectors on the panel and also on the stand so I can wheel it out for cleaning by simply unplugging the patch leads, same story with the pumps. All other fittings such as elements are tri clover and can be removed from the pots for a full clean down if required.

Plumbing underneath is not visible in these photos

 

[Benn]

Can I have it?

 

[pcqypcqy]

Can I have it?

You can have the brewery, I want to have that Lamaze dog toy there.

 

[Moad]

Can I have it?

No that would require me to total up the cost...I am way past that...

 

[SBOB]

nice panel wiring

 

[Moad]

nice panel wiring

It looks a little untidy because I left the cover plate off where they are all channeled. I owe lots of beer to my mate for putting the electrical stuff together, and my other mate who helped with the plumbing and stand, and Bruce (Tex n Oz) for the welding.

Lucky I made it so big so I can repay all of the favours!

 

[Cocko]

I dont to read many threads these days but glad I flicked this one open, **** me Moad - Amazing build man. Be proud!

:super:

 

[Moad]

Thanks Cocko!

I was having a play last night and had a spare 2 way valve. I've now hooked it up from tap to chillers so I can automate the chilling completely. All I need to do is undo the bk return line TC fitting and drop into fermenter when I'm alerted to do so (during hop stand). The fermenter will eventually be another TC fitting but for now they are plastic.

 

[malt junkie]

Moad, great work mate! What size hoses did you go with? Particularly on the Nano. Also first brew pics are a must.

one sexy bit of kit for making beer
Love it!

 

[Moad]

I found some 1" silicone from ali baba, it works fine with cold water but not sure what it will do when it gets hot. It is rated for boiling + but more concerned about the flexing and kinking
The other stuff is just standard 13mm silicone. Out of the nano is strangely a 1/2" fitting, that is one part of the plumbing I need to address as I didn't have fittings to go straight from 1/2" to 1" into the valve.

So out of the nano its 1/2" silicone for a short run then into a tee with 2 x 2-way full bore 1" valves into 1" tubing.

The bottleneck on flow rate is the coil, limits me to 7L / min with the nano and can get 6L/min with the March 815-C's. So slightly better flow rate from the Nano than the 815's, I expect it could get up to 10L/min with a 3/4" coil or a shorter coil but I don't think it will be an issue. I expect it will be somewhere in the vacinity of 15 minutes for mash step ramp times. I get 12L/min with the 1/2" hose (chiller circuit) and 815-C through 2x30 plate chillers. That's 10 min to pump full volume through chillers into fermenter.

Elements getting wired up tonight so will have some actual numbers to go on for ramp times etc

 

[Moad]

oops

 

[Moad]

Real world result is 8 degrees in 10 minutes for water, won't be testing with grain for a few weeks.

 

[Moad]

I'm running some more tests now and logging some data, one interesting observation is the 3 degree differential between HLT reported temp and the return at the point just before exiting the HEX into MT.

there is then a 7 degree differential between the HEX return and the MT which I expected.

I am logging the temps so will have some graphs to go over shortly. I expected a one or two degree difference between HLT temp and the return but not 3. I suspect it is because the HLT probe is directly in liquid and the HEX Return and MT probes are in thermowells.

 

[Moad]

Well a couple of observations but I'll need to rerun the test as I realised I wasn't recirculating the HLT at the end. I think the difference between HLT and HEX will be 1 degree rather than 3 once it is recirculating.

The mash lagged behind the HEX return by 7 degrees the whole way through the ramp, once HLT and HEX return were close together it started to draw closer together. Overall ramp rate starting the HLT and MT at 20 degrees was 80 minutes to go to 70 in the HLT and 60 in the MT. So one degree every two minutes in the mash which is acceptable for me.

One issue is that the MT never caught up to HEX return, it was 2 degrees behind. When the HLT and HEX were reading at target strike temp of 71 the MT only ever got just over 69 . I can only put this down to heat loss through the pot (not insulated). I've read the conversion takes place in the liquid and the hottest temp is what I should be reading, I guess as long as I am consistent in the process then it isn't a big problem. Maybe for strike temp I'll measure from the MT but then for the mash I'll read from the HEX return to ramp etc.

Another issue I am now realising I am going to have is that I am heating the entire strike volume in HLT and MT to 71 however this does not account for the drop to target mash temp with constant recirculation. So my mash will drop to say 66 when I dough in but as soon as the recirc kicks back in the HLT is at 71 so will bring the mash up again. It may take some tweaking but maybe I will need to heat HLT + MT strike water to only 2 degrees above first step temp. Mash in and the MT will drop 1 or 2 below, start recirc and the mash going through the coil will be target temp... they should balance out in the middle at the first mash step temp pretty quickly.

The other issue is the Chugger Max pump overheated twice. It was running for an hour and a half and felt hot but not too hot. I've contacted Chugger to see what I need to do, really hoping I don't have to send this back to brewers hardware as it will cost me close to $100 in shipping. If I do that I might see if I can get a refund on it and use one of the March 815-Cs for the Mash pump instead. I was still getting 6L/min with them which should be OK.

All in all I'm really happy with the rig so far, definitely some improvements to be made but I'll be able to make beer real soon.