New BJCP Style Guidelines 2015 Discussion Thread

[Bribie G]

First off the rank:

New Guidelines

Where the Fk is Pale Continental Lager?

They seem to have cut this right out of Light Lagers and Pilsners. In other words they have totally excised anything that you would like to brew as a tribute to the likes of Carlsberg, Stella and really any lager beer outside of the Reinheitsgebot area. Like, hey, nearly every lager brewed on the planet not from USA, Germany or Czech Republic.

Does this reflect an increasing Americo-Centric view of the BJCP?

 

[Black n Tan]

Where the Fk is Pale Continental Lager?

It was never in the BJCP 2008 guidelines. it is however in the Australian AABC guidelines.

EDIT: I believe they have covered these type of lagers under 2A. International Pale Lager??

 

[GalBrew]

One of them is the replacement term for Bohemian Pils I believe. Not sure which one. Apparently it aims to reduce the American centric feel to the guidelines.

 

[Black n Tan]

One of them is the replacement term for Bohemian Pils I believe. Not sure which one. Apparently it aims to reduce the American centric feel to the guidelines.

Bo Pils is now covered by 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager. I like the expanded Czech category, but surely if the Czech's get their own category the Germans deserve one too?

My understanding is that 'Pale Continental Lager' was specific to the Australian guidelines and not covered by BJCP 2008. Sorry for the shortness on my response Bridie, but I had to get dinner on the table for some hungry chickens.

 

[GalBrew]

If find the continental lager situation quite confusing at the minute.

 

[Kodos]

Bo Pils is now covered by 3B. Czech Premium Pale Lager. I like the expanded Czech category, but surely if the Czech's get their own category the Germans deserve one too?

[SIZE=10pt]4. P[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALE [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]M[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALTY [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]L[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]AGER: [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]4A. Munich Helles, 4B. Festbier, 4C. Helles Bock[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]5. P[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALE [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ITTER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER: [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]5A. German Leichtbier, [/SIZE]5B. Kölsch, 5C. German Helles Exportbier, 5D. German Pils


[SIZE=10pt]6. A[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]MBER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]M[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALTY [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]L[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]AGER:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] 6A. Märzen, 6B. Rauchbier, 6C. Dunkles Bock[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]7. A[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]MBER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ITTER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]: 7A. Vienna Lager, 7B. Altbier, 7C. Kellerbier [/SIZE](Pale Kellerbier and Amber Kellerbier)
[SIZE=10pt]8. D[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ARK [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]L[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]AGER[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]: 8A. Munich Dunkel, 8B. Schwarzbier.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]9. S[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]TRONG [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] 9A. Doppelbock, 9B. Eisbock, 9C. Baltic Porter [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]10. G[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ERMAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]W[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]HEAT [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] 10A. Weissbier, 10B. Dunkles Weissbier, 10C. Weizenbock[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]I think the German Styles are covered pretty well.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]I've been going through BJCP training with the 2008 guide, and comparing the old guidelines with the new where appropriate. I think the new guide is excellent - putting "overall impression" first really gives a good idea of the beer first, and the "Style Comparison" section for each beer is very helpful. [/SIZE]They've also made efforts to seek input on fixing historic inaccuracies.

[SIZE=10pt]There will always be people whinging about details they disagree with, but given the way styles evolve and tastes/ingredients change, you'll never please everyone. There's still no other resource that comes close to it, and this was entirely the product of volunteer hours. And aside from this, it was always made purely as a guide for American homebrew competitions, but they did such a thorough job it's ended up being the most comprehensive resource of it's type that it's referenced throughout the brewing industry in one way or another.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]As far as categories go, they've taken a new approach this time around - not always grouping them by heritage or style, but more about flavour characteristics. They go to great lengths in the guide to explain the document's intentions and limitations:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]"[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]The larger [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]categories [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]are arbitrary groupings of beer, mead, or cider styles, usually with similar characteristics but some subcategories are not necessarily related to others within the same category. The purpose of the structure within the BJCP Style Guidelines is to group styles of beer, mead and cider to facilitate judging during competitions; do not attempt to derive additional meaning from these groupings. No historical or geographic association is implied.[/SIZE]



[SIZE=10pt]Competitions may create their own [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]award categories [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]that are distinct from the [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]style categories [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]listed in these guidelines. [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]There is no requirement that competitions use style categories as award categories! "[/SIZE]

 

[Black n Tan]

[SIZE=10pt]4. P[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALE [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]M[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALTY [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]L[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]AGER: [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]4A. Munich Helles, 4B. Festbier, 4C. Helles Bock[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]5. P[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALE [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ITTER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER: [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]5A. German Leichtbier, [/SIZE]5B. Kölsch, 5C. German Helles Exportbier, 5D. German Pils


[SIZE=10pt]6. A[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]MBER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]M[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ALTY [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]L[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]AGER:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] 6A. Märzen, 6B. Rauchbier, 6C. Dunkles Bock[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]7. A[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]MBER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ITTER [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]: 7A. Vienna Lager, 7B. Altbier, 7C. Kellerbier [/SIZE](Pale Kellerbier and Amber Kellerbier)
[SIZE=10pt]8. D[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ARK [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]L[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]AGER[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]: 8A. Munich Dunkel, 8B. Schwarzbier.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]9. S[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]TRONG [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]E[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]UROPEAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] 9A. Doppelbock, 9B. Eisbock, 9C. Baltic Porter [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]10. G[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]ERMAN [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]W[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]HEAT [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]B[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt]EER:[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] 10A. Weissbier, 10B. Dunkles Weissbier, 10C. Weizenbock[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]I think the German Styles are covered pretty well.[/SIZE]

Sorry I understand the german styles are covered, all I meant was 'german' was not mentioned in the Category description (except for the wheat) eg. may be 'Pale Malty European Lager' should be 'Pale Malty German Lager' etc. In any case I look forward to brewing everyone of the above. Just need more time, more time.

 

[labels]

The new style guidelines are a welcome update. They have much wider interpretation of styles than the old ones. When judging under the old guidelines, you could have an excellent beer that didn't match the style guidelines and got marked down because of that. The Overall Impression category was the only place you could mark a beer up if it was outside the style it was entered into. This category only represented 20% of overall score so I have personally seen good beers that should have done better, not score very well because of the guideline constrictions.

I hope this makes sense but, the BJCP guidelines is a document that is designed only for judging at beer comps, homebrew ones at that, not a general purpose document for beer styles. Although, we know it is used for other purposes, don't forget the original (and only) intention.

 

[Bribie G]

Aha now I see it, Pale International Lager.
I didn't realise that Continental Pale Lager was an Aussie only style under the old guidelines. It makes a lot of sense to call it "international" so that it covers home brewed attempts at Kirin, VB, Castle Lager etc that are not really "Continental".

 

[labels]

Aha now I see it, Pale International Lager.
I didn't realise that Continental Pale Lager was an Aussie only style under the old guidelines. It makes a lot of sense to call it "international" so that it covers home brewed attempts at Kirin, VB, Castle Lager etc that are not really "Continental".

I hope you're not suggesting that Australia is neither a 'Continent' or 'International' because I think we're an International Continent.

Never brewed VB, Castle Lager (Where the fk does that stuff come from, never heard of it), or Kirin (owner of West End Draught and other nasties)

 

[Kodos]

Aha now I see it, Pale International Lager.
I didn't realise that Continental Pale Lager was an Aussie only style under the old guidelines. It makes a lot of sense to call it "international" so that it covers home brewed attempts at Kirin, VB, Castle Lager etc that are not really "Continental".

When you say "old" guidelines, AFAIK the styles used in Australian competitions (at least the Australian Amateur Brewing Championships) will remain the same, at least until after the AABA has it's yearly meeting at the nationals this year (in Brisbane, I believe).

All previous suggestions of switching the AABC styles over to BJCP have been promptly quashed, not sure why exactly.

That said, the AABA has made regular tweaks to it's guidelines over the years, so may be willing to update the styles taken verbatim from the bjcp to the 2015 versions.

 

[Kodos]

When judging under the old guidelines, you could have an excellent beer that didn't match the style guidelines and got marked down because of that. The Overall Impression category was the only place you could mark a beer up if it was outside the style it was entered into. This category only represented 20% of overall score so I have personally seen good beers that should have done better, not score very well because of the guideline constrictions.

I've not come across anything to suggest scoring will change - so assume the scoring breakdown will remain the same.

Conformity to style has to be a pretty major part of scoring - a cracking Czech Pilsner shouldn't score well as an English Bitter, for example.

 

[Bribie G]

Bump.

I see that the ESB comp this year is using the new 2015 style guidelines.

Does anyone know if the AABC is going to switch this year?