New 4wd - Decisions.....
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Wrong - air locker in the front on a patrol. Patrol already has LSD rear end thats more than capable for most people (nissan diffs are pretty strong).
Only do a rear locker after you've done a front - no point wasting money. E-locker is (arguably) a better option any way and similarly priced to the gAyRB air locker. TJM also have an air opperated locker.
Reality is that for 99% of people a set of 285/75R16 (33") tyres, a deflator, a sand ladder, hand winch (or these days a Tigerz11 12000lbs for around $700), long handled shovel, snatch strap, tree trunck protector, riggers gloves, winch extension strap, 4x rated bow shackles and a 12V compressor and you'll probably never need a rear (or front) air locker in a patrol as you should be able to get 3wd because of the chain drive transfer and rear LSD which can be shimmed up.
As you can see in the photo I posted the driver side wheel isnt spinning under throttle (had the loud pedal down pretty hard - I'd already had to winch up part of that section of the track) a locker would have made that section easier but if I landed locked I would have snapped driveline components. I did that track on bald 285/75R16 MTZs with no spring lift (my 4" lift arrived the week after - was spewing).
If it was a TOYota then you need the rear locker because they don't have a rear LSD and being constant 4wd you are relying on centre difflock, rear open wheel and front open wheel - 2WD at best. Plus the 105 series **** front diffs when they see a 4wd track.
33" tyres and 2" spring lift will get 99% of blokes where they want to go - even with no spring lift you'll get more places than you'd believe. GUs have pretty good approach angles fair ramp over and a fairly well protected undercarriage
Only do a rear locker after you've done a front - no point wasting money. E-locker is (arguably) a better option any way and similarly priced to the gAyRB air locker. TJM also have an air opperated locker.
Reality is that for 99% of people a set of 285/75R16 (33") tyres, a deflator, a sand ladder, hand winch (or these days a Tigerz11 12000lbs for around $700), long handled shovel, snatch strap, tree trunck protector, riggers gloves, winch extension strap, 4x rated bow shackles and a 12V compressor and you'll probably never need a rear (or front) air locker in a patrol as you should be able to get 3wd because of the chain drive transfer and rear LSD which can be shimmed up.
As you can see in the photo I posted the driver side wheel isnt spinning under throttle (had the loud pedal down pretty hard - I'd already had to winch up part of that section of the track) a locker would have made that section easier but if I landed locked I would have snapped driveline components. I did that track on bald 285/75R16 MTZs with no spring lift (my 4" lift arrived the week after - was spewing).
If it was a TOYota then you need the rear locker because they don't have a rear LSD and being constant 4wd you are relying on centre difflock, rear open wheel and front open wheel - 2WD at best. Plus the 105 series **** front diffs when they see a 4wd track.
33" tyres and 2" spring lift will get 99% of blokes where they want to go - even with no spring lift you'll get more places than you'd believe. GUs have pretty good approach angles fair ramp over and a fairly well protected undercarriage
CosmicBertie
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I own a 2010 Patrol 3.0 CRD. The 'hand grenade engine' refers to the old DI diesels?
Anyway, just though I'd ask, with your 285/75R16 muddies on, did they rub/catch the guards at all? Mine currently has 265/70R16 AT tyres on it, and was thinking of getting some muddies, but I was under the impression that the 285/75 would be too big?
Thanks!
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I ran 285/75R16 with no lift - they will rub the paint off the inside of the wheel arch at the rear under full articulation - but you'll be going so slow when fully flexed that it causes no issues.
No issues with the front as it doesn't flex enough because of the 3 link design means the radius arm stops the diff rolling which prevents further articulation, unless you run a superior super flexy arm or remove the front bolt on one side of the radius arm (if you remove a bolt be prepared to flog out bushes and possible have other front end driveline issues).
The only time I had rubbing that caused issues was doing jeep track at the back of mt sunday which I really shouldn't have tackled at stock height if im honest (had to skull drag it up using the winch half the time). The wheel rub ripped the plastic splash guard that extend from the wheel arch under the quater to the rear bar. No big deal and probably better with out it as I can clean in there now.
These days I run 4" of lift and because of the additional flex it rubs like buggery - mind you I also push the vehicle a lot harder than ever before. OTT was a walk in the park with a couple of minor obsticals compared to the stuff I usually put the old girl through.
The CRD and the DI both get the refered to as the hand grenade. Mind you there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with them. The issue comes from the unconventional turbo and from the emmisions control. If your a member on Patrol4x4.com check out the threads on NADS (nissan anti detonation system).
I nearly bought a 3L (DI) myself but I wasn't happy with the lack of "useable" torque - having said that now that I've driven a CRD variant I'd have one in a flash.
At the end of the day yes there is a high number of them that have gone bang - but most are S2-3. I've only heard of a handful of CRDs that have gone bang - no more than any other engine.
I'm just overhauling my front diff at the moment as my kingpin bearings and wheel bearings are rooted. I've also got a shagged clutch from getting swamped at Nolans Brook. Imagine water up over the centre console of your car with 33" tyres and 4" of spring lift... it was f**ken deep!
They're tough rigs though. I saw a stock as a rock ZD30 (DI) up the top that had also been swamped. He also had no mechanical issues. So peoples concerns about ECU damage is a little over rated at times.
No issues with the front as it doesn't flex enough because of the 3 link design means the radius arm stops the diff rolling which prevents further articulation, unless you run a superior super flexy arm or remove the front bolt on one side of the radius arm (if you remove a bolt be prepared to flog out bushes and possible have other front end driveline issues).
The only time I had rubbing that caused issues was doing jeep track at the back of mt sunday which I really shouldn't have tackled at stock height if im honest (had to skull drag it up using the winch half the time). The wheel rub ripped the plastic splash guard that extend from the wheel arch under the quater to the rear bar. No big deal and probably better with out it as I can clean in there now.
These days I run 4" of lift and because of the additional flex it rubs like buggery - mind you I also push the vehicle a lot harder than ever before. OTT was a walk in the park with a couple of minor obsticals compared to the stuff I usually put the old girl through.
The CRD and the DI both get the refered to as the hand grenade. Mind you there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with them. The issue comes from the unconventional turbo and from the emmisions control. If your a member on Patrol4x4.com check out the threads on NADS (nissan anti detonation system).
I nearly bought a 3L (DI) myself but I wasn't happy with the lack of "useable" torque - having said that now that I've driven a CRD variant I'd have one in a flash.
At the end of the day yes there is a high number of them that have gone bang - but most are S2-3. I've only heard of a handful of CRDs that have gone bang - no more than any other engine.
I'm just overhauling my front diff at the moment as my kingpin bearings and wheel bearings are rooted. I've also got a shagged clutch from getting swamped at Nolans Brook. Imagine water up over the centre console of your car with 33" tyres and 4" of spring lift... it was f**ken deep!
They're tough rigs though. I saw a stock as a rock ZD30 (DI) up the top that had also been swamped. He also had no mechanical issues. So peoples concerns about ECU damage is a little over rated at times.
Dave70
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I found a dramatic improvement with my plain old 2" lift and 33"A/T's 80series Cruiser after the front and rear swaybars somehow fell off.
Just need to keep an eye on the brake lines.
Did become a little 'boatish' on road however..
Swaybar disconnects are the best answer to that. Flex offroad and manners on road.
Actually the front will flex better if the rear is left on, within reason, as it forces the front to flex. Like wise stiffer rear springs.
I actually snapped a front swaybar link whilst 4wding without having disconnected my swaybar - but I run a superior flexy arm.
Check out the Superior Engineering site for the Flexy arms - they do them for LCs and 'trols. I get way better front flex than my mates without them which makes for a much nicer and more predictable off road drive (except when I miss my line as is shown on my entrance to canibal creek in the video above LOL)
Front swaybars were actually an option on early GQs - they didn't come as standard. If you leave the rear on and just loose the front you get a faster turn in as is causes the vehicle to oversteer slightly - which is nice if you run a bit extra toe in to compensate for the hard to keep straight bigger agressive tread patterns many 4wders run which causes the vehicle to have a bit of a steering 'lag'. Its just a little unnerving when you have a roof top tent raising the COG that bit higher.
Extended brake lines stop brake line worries. They arent expencive and ADR compliant braided lines give a better brake feel.
Actually the front will flex better if the rear is left on, within reason, as it forces the front to flex. Like wise stiffer rear springs.
I actually snapped a front swaybar link whilst 4wding without having disconnected my swaybar - but I run a superior flexy arm.
Check out the Superior Engineering site for the Flexy arms - they do them for LCs and 'trols. I get way better front flex than my mates without them which makes for a much nicer and more predictable off road drive (except when I miss my line as is shown on my entrance to canibal creek in the video above LOL)
Front swaybars were actually an option on early GQs - they didn't come as standard. If you leave the rear on and just loose the front you get a faster turn in as is causes the vehicle to oversteer slightly - which is nice if you run a bit extra toe in to compensate for the hard to keep straight bigger agressive tread patterns many 4wders run which causes the vehicle to have a bit of a steering 'lag'. Its just a little unnerving when you have a roof top tent raising the COG that bit higher.
Extended brake lines stop brake line worries. They arent expencive and ADR compliant braided lines give a better brake feel.
CosmicBertie
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So the front ones didnt rub when turning on full lock either? If so, thats cool, think I'll get myself some 285/75/R16 wheels/tyres then. Did the rims have an offset? Not that i fully understand what that means, but it seems to be an option
I dont think I'm that advanced yet, I've only been out a couple of times around the Wombat State Forest!
I was under the impression that anything over 2" lift was, er, not legal...is that so?
Yeah, im really happy with mine. First 4x4 and first auto. The auto gearbox lag is slightly annoying, but I'm guessing that all autos are like that.
Maybe we could head out sometime
Grampians should be your play ground heaps of good wheeling up that way - and less water to worry about.
Legally you can can do 50mm of spring lift and 25mm increase in wheel radius - ie 75mm total lift without engineering it. Thats on Vicroads website.
Mine isn't legal but I'm in the process of arranging to have it engineered - I'm just struggling to get an engineer that will perform the lane change / swerve test.
I've spent a LOT of money on my lift and I'm very happy with the way it handles - I dare suggest it actually handles better than it did with the flogged out OEM suspension. HOWEVER a 2" lift will get you 99% of places. Do a search on the patrol4x4 site for posts by a guy called "Teabag". He had one of the most capable "tough" touring rigs I've ever seen with just 2" lift and 33" (equivilant) tyres.
Autos have a bit of lag - particularly noticable in diesels. But IMO an auto is a 4wders best friend. Especially for beginers. I priced up having mine converted to auto but it was a $13,500 job. Unfortunately the TD42T Y61 never came in an auto (at least not to Australia).
They may have rubbed on full lock but I dont think so - plus how often are you at full lock?
As for offset. I run standard nissan steel rims which I believe is +10 (so actually inset). 0 offset should be fine but I believe typically most people fitting sunnies go for a -13offset which actually moves the tyre out by 23mm (assuming that nissan standard offset is +10)
Most of my mates run 0 offset or -13 offset (one mate runs -22 offset with big flares). The -13s hang out noticably and throw heaps of mud down the side of the car - but its wide track. I personally dont need to be attracting any more attention to my car than what I already do with the lift so standard offset suits me fine
As for heading out for a play - sounds good to me. I'm just going to be off the road for a few weeks doing some maintenance (starter is rooted and so is my clutch and kingpin/wheel bearings after getting stuck in noolans brook). Least all the tracks should be opening soon!
heaps of good wheeling up that way - and less water to worry about.Legally you can can do 50mm of spring lift and 25mm increase in wheel radius - ie 75mm total lift without engineering it. Thats on Vicroads website.
Mine isn't legal but I'm in the process of arranging to have it engineered - I'm just struggling to get an engineer that will perform the lane change / swerve test.
I've spent a LOT of money on my lift and I'm very happy with the way it handles - I dare suggest it actually handles better than it did with the flogged out OEM suspension. HOWEVER a 2" lift will get you 99% of places. Do a search on the patrol4x4 site for posts by a guy called "Teabag". He had one of the most capable "tough" touring rigs I've ever seen with just 2" lift and 33" (equivilant) tyres.
Autos have a bit of lag - particularly noticable in diesels. But IMO an auto is a 4wders best friend. Especially for beginers. I priced up having mine converted to auto but it was a $13,500 job. Unfortunately the TD42T Y61 never came in an auto (at least not to Australia).
They may have rubbed on full lock but I dont think so - plus how often are you at full lock?
As for offset. I run standard nissan steel rims which I believe is +10 (so actually inset). 0 offset should be fine but I believe typically most people fitting sunnies go for a -13offset which actually moves the tyre out by 23mm (assuming that nissan standard offset is +10)
Most of my mates run 0 offset or -13 offset (one mate runs -22 offset with big flares). The -13s hang out noticably and throw heaps of mud down the side of the car - but its wide track. I personally dont need to be attracting any more attention to my car than what I already do with the lift so standard offset suits me fine
As for heading out for a play - sounds good to me. I'm just going to be off the road for a few weeks doing some maintenance (starter is rooted and so is my clutch and kingpin/wheel bearings after getting stuck in noolans brook). Least all the tracks should be opening soon!
