NEIPA do's and don'ts

[Grmblz]

Lighten up princesses, where's your sense of humour?
There's room for a little levity, surely.

Anyway, it's stirred some life into this place.

I love youse all. Good night, over and out.

Lightweight, calling it a night??? Yawn!!! Oh dear, maybe I should have stuck to the red.

 

[kadmium]

Hah. Too many NEIPAs I mean waters seeing it's not beer to some.

Hey, English is my first language. Cut me some slack. Oh wait.

 

[Grmblz]

 

[hoppy2B]

Hi all

It's been a while since I posted a query, everyone has been very helpful.

My 2nd brew, Pirate Life IIPA was fabulous, 3rd brew Six Strings dark red IPA will be tasted this weekend. I have currently got a NEIPA brewing and I have had some conflicting advice versus the recipe. I am not too fussed about having conflicting advice however I thought I would throw this to the forum to get some feedback;

1. Airlock or Hydrometer? In relation to dry hopping, should I do this when the airlock stops bubbling (recipe says so and suggested this would be 7 days) or when the hydrometer reading is down to 1.015 (started at 1.045 which the recipe I have says should be the OG (between this and 1.055). Currently my hydrometer reading is 1.020 after 9 days (my two previous brews have fermented for 26 days at between 18-20 celsius to get down to 1.015
2. Dry Hopping - Citra and Mosaic. 4-5 days before bottling (recipe) or 48 hours (advice)?
3. Cold Crashing for 24 hours prior to bottling - This I am a bit wary of. Happy to give it a go, advice not recipe, and I can get the brew down to 2 degrees celsius outside thanks to the Blue Mountains climate, probably for about 10 -12 hours. My query is;
   • Does it have to be around 1-4 degrees for the entire 24 hours
   • if it was to vary between 2-8 degrees would that still work? - thinking of wrapping some ice packs around it from 7am and putting it in the shed (ambient temp of about 10 degrees
   • Does it affect the beer flavour or is it purely a vanity exercise to make the beer look good?
4. Easy to read hydrometers, any ideas? I find it difficult to read the one I have.

Sorry for all the questions however I know some of you have a lot more experience than I do on this so appreciate any guidance.

Cheers
Nick.

NEIPA will be hazy due to high level of hop oils. Cold crashing wouldn't change that. Cold crashed beers have a cleaner taste to me, less of the rank leafyness pellets seem to impart on account of the very fine particles.

I grow my own hops and I don't cold crash, but I don't dry hop either. Nowadays I brew with mostly raw wheat that I grow and a small percentage of ale malt, I don't boil (apart from a small side boil for bittering) and I don't chill. I simply bring the wort up to 70 degrees Celsius to pasteurise it, and drop the flavour hops in then or after it has cooled a couple of degrees. Made some nice beers that way.

Moral of the story is, do what works for you. Doesn't need to be elaborate. I do plan to dry hop in future but am developing a method of removing the lupulin from the cones first.

 

[HazyNick]

Hey all appreciate all the comments. I do have a sense of humour and understand that everyone has their opinions and preferences on beer choices. Just for the record I love IPA, however have never licked a coin. I am thankful for all of you who responded with with some sage advice and feedback and I hope that I can let you know how great my beer turns out. I will say that I have managed to weed out the non constructive advice, so please don't think I'm taking everything to heart. Good luck with getting your suit dry-cleaned. Cheers

 

[butisitart]

Hey all appreciate all the comments. I do have a sense of humour and understand that everyone has their opinions and preferences on beer choices. Just for the record I love IPA, however have never licked a coin. I am thankful for all of you who responded with with some sage advice and feedback and I hope that I can let you know how great my beer turns out. I will say that I have managed to weed out the non constructive advice, so please don't think I'm taking everything to heart. Good luck with getting your suit dry-cleaned. Cheers

most of us don't lick coins. he suffers a mineral deficiency, you know, like when you're looking for salt so you go and buy some chips.
even i, who has great taste in beer, hope your neipa turns out

 

[goatchop41]

NEIPA will be hazy due to high level of hop oils

At the risk of being pedantic (I don't think that pointing this out is, but some will), that's actually not correct (well, probably not correct).
The haze is most likely from a reaction between polyphenols (from both the hops and malt) and protein from the malt/adjuncts.

This discusses it.
Janish's book 'The New IPA' is a great read on all of this stuff. @HazyNick I would suggest that you get your hands on a copy and have a read, it's worth every cent!

 

[hoppy2B]

At the risk of being pedantic (I don't think that pointing this out is, but some will), that's actually not correct (well, probably not correct).
The haze is most likely from a reaction between polyphenols (from both the hops and malt) and protein from the malt/adjuncts.

This discusses it.
Janish's book 'The New IPA' is a great read on all of this stuff. @HazyNick I would suggest that you get your hands on a copy and have a read, it's worth every cent!

Thanks for pointing that out. I predicated my statement on the fact I had read other people suggest it and it seemed about right. I doubt one would get the same sort of haze if using a large amount of hops and boiling the bejesus out of them. It's only natural to assume it is the result of hop oils.

 

[Brewman_]

NEIPA's aren't my cup of tea.

However, I like things others don't and vice-versa. That's one of the good things about home brewing - make what you like and sure push some boundaries.

Lots of Brewman customers make these and I have worked with some very good brewers - Home brewers and Professionals on how to make these beers. There are some recipes on Brewbuilder as a reference.

Here are my Do's and Don'ts

Do
Keep the bitterness low
Keep O2 exposure as low as you possibly can
Use very wisely the type of hops you use in the kettle. Some are smooth, others can be harsh.
Drink them early as you can.
Use flaked wheat and Oats.

Don'ts
Choose the kettle hops for fruitiness without harsh side effects. I would be careful with Galaxy any earlier than whirlpool hops.
Don't let them mature. carbonate and drink with your mates

Cheers
Steve

 

[goatchop41]

Use flaked wheat and Oats

Have you had customers/other brewers who have noticed a difference between flaked wheat and just plain wheat malt?

 

[GalBrew]

I would be careful with Galaxy any earlier than whirlpool hops.

This is good advice in general.

 

[hoppy2B]

It's been said before and I hold the same view. "Why would anyone set out to make a cloudy brew by adding certain grain additions?" NEIPA is cloudy because of the large addition of late/dry hops. If you're not getting a cloudy brew from adding lots of hops, and trying to compensate by adding various grains, then you're doing it wrong.

I have also read, and I agree, that mouthfeel is softened, and head retention improved, by the addition of hops.

Moral of the story is: Don't be stingy with the hops when making NEIPA. Grain bill is less important. And who cares about why it's cloudy. It's all about using lots of hops.

 

[goatchop41]

It's been said before and I hold the same view. "Why would anyone set out to make a cloudy brew by adding certain grain additions?" NEIPA is cloudy because of the large addition of late/dry hops. If you're not getting a cloudy brew from adding lots of hops, and trying to compensate by adding various grains, then you're doing it wrong.

Well, no. In my opinion, I would say that you are the one who is wrong. Grain bill is important, because as I mentioned above, proteins are most likely an important part of the haze, as well as contributing to mouthfeel and head formation/retention.
Yes, you can make a hazy beer without higher protein adjuncts, but the extra proteins will likely help to form a more permanent and more opaque haze. It's not about compensating by adding to the grain bill, the grain bill is an important part full stop

I have also read, and I agree, that mouthfeel is softened

Yes, a little might come from the hops, but grain bill and water chemistry will play a much bigger part.


NEIPAs aren't just about throwing a shit ton of hops at a beer. They're about getting the correct grain bill, water chemistry and yeast first, then throwing a shit ton of hops at it.

 

[hoppy2B]

Well, no. In my opinion, I would say that you are the one who is wrong. Grain bill is important, because as I mentioned above, proteins are most likely an important part of the haze, as well as contributing to mouthfeel and head formation/retention.
Yes, you can make a hazy beer without higher protein adjuncts, but the extra proteins will likely help to form a more permanent and more opaque haze. It's not about compensating by adding to the grain bill, the grain bill is an important part full stop


Yes, a little might come from the hops, but grain bill and water chemistry will play a much bigger part.


NEIPAs aren't just about throwing a shit ton of hops at a beer. They're about getting the correct grain bill, water chemistry and yeast first, then throwing a shit ton of hops at it.

Well if you want to focus on all the factors let's not forget about choosing a suitable yeast. 1318 is a good one.

One could make a NEIPA with a single malt. As far as I am concerned, grain bill is largely irrelevant. The point of NEIPA is adding lots of hops is to achieve a huge fruity hoppy brew. It's not to try and brew something cloudy.

I was making NEIPA before the term was even invented. It isn't something I set out to copy, nor am I trying to make a cloudy brew, I'm simply trying to get as many late hops into my beer as possible.

 

[kadmium]

Well if you want to focus on all the factors let's not forget about choosing a suitable yeast. 1318 is a good one.

One could make a NEIPA with a single malt. As far as I am concerned, grain bill is largely irrelevant. The point of NEIPA is adding lots of hops is to achieve a huge fruity hoppy brew. It's not to try and brew something cloudy.

I was making NEIPA before the term was even invented. It isn't something I set out to copy, nor am I trying to make a cloudy brew, I'm simply trying to get as many late hops into my beer as possible.

Then you're not brewing a NEIPA. Try calling it a West Coast IPA or something else. A NEIPA is known as being hazy, juicy and containing oats and wheat with a specific chloride to sulfate ratio.

Why try and take credit for something, by saying you have been brewing these before they came fashionable right after admitting you don't even know what they are.

 

[goatchop41]

One could make a NEIPA with a single malt. As far as I am concerned, grain bill is largely irrelevant

And as I've pointed out above, you would be wrong. It's not irrelevant, as you need high protein malts/adjuncts to help form the permahaze.
Yes, you're right in that you could make a NEIPA with a single malt, but you could also say that about many other beers as well. Most importantly, just because you can do that, it doesn't mean that you should, nor does it mean that it would actually make a great example of the style/beer. It might be ok, but a great NEIPA needs wheat/oats/etc.

Well if you want to focus on all the factors let's not forget about choosing a suitable yeast.

Yes, I did mention that.

The point of NEIPA is adding lots of hops is to achieve a huge fruity hoppy brew. It's not to try and brew something cloudy

Again, you're incorrect. A NEIPA is inherently hazy, that's one of the defining characteristics.
BJCP style guidelines: "Color ranges from straw to yellow, sometimes with an orange hue. Hazy, often opaque, clarity; should not be cloudy or murky. The opacity can add a ‘shine’ to the beer and make the color seem darker"

I was making NEIPA before the term was even invented. It isn't something I set out to copy, nor am I trying to make a cloudy brew, I'm simply trying to get as many late hops into my beer as possible.

Kadmium is right, you seem to be trying to claim that you were making something that you don't quite understand properly. NEIPAs are a combination of haze, mouthfeel, low bitterness AND hops.
Your insistence that hops are the only thing that matters in a NEIPA demonstrates that you don't fully comprehend the style of beer itself. Yes, you might be making a very hoppy IPA with low bitterness, but just throwing a ton of hops at a beer doesn't make it a NEIPA.

Unfortunately this seems to be a misunderstanding that you and a lot of Aussie craft breweries share. There are too many of them who just throw tons of new world hops at a beer and call it a NEIPA, despite it not having much haze to speak of, thin-ish body and lack of a soft mouthfeel

 

[kadmium]

And as I've pointed out above, you would be wrong. It's not irrelevant, as you need high protein malts/adjuncts to help form the permahaze.
Yes, you're right in that you could make a NEIPA with a single malt, but you could also say that about many other beers as well. Most importantly, just because you can do that, it doesn't mean that you should, nor does it mean that it would actually make a great example of the style/beer. It might be ok, but a great NEIPA needs wheat/oats/etc.


Yes, I did mention that.


Again, you're incorrect. A NEIPA is inherently hazy, that's one of the defining characteristics.
BJCP style guidelines: "Color ranges from straw to yellow, sometimes with an orange hue. Hazy, often opaque, clarity; should not be cloudy or murky. The opacity can add a ‘shine’ to the beer and make the color seem darker"


Kadmium is right, you seem to be trying to claim that you were making something that you don't quite understand properly. NEIPAs are a combination of haze, mouthfeel, low bitterness AND hops.
Your insistence that hops are the only thing that matters in a NEIPA demonstrates that you don't fully comprehend the style of beer itself. Yes, you might be making a very hoppy IPA with low bitterness, but just throwing a ton of hops at a beer doesn't make it a NEIPA.

Unfortunately this seems to be a misunderstanding that you and a lot of Aussie craft breweries share. There are too many of them who just throw tons of new world hops at a beer and call it a NEIPA, despite it not having much haze to speak of, thin-ish body and lack of a soft mouthfeel

And don't get me started on them adding lactose. But hey, I make my stouts with nothing but pilsner malt and roast barley. It's jet black so it must be a stout. Also, I was doing it before Guiness made it popular.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Neil Fisher, Co-Founder & Head Brewer of WeldWerks in Greeley, Colorado

For most of our New England-style IPAs our water profile targets are around 175–200 ppm chloride, 75–100 ppm sulfate, and less than 150 ppm calcium. Depending on your base ion profile, strictly using calcium chloride and calcium sulfate to achieve those targets can result in too high a concentration of calcium, which may affect yeast behavior, specifically flocculation, so consider magnesium sulfate as an alternative for your sulfate additions.

We use a fair amount of flaked wheat and flaked oats in a lot of our IPAs, mainly for their contributions to the mouthfeel and body of the beer. But we’ve found that more than 15% of flaked wheat or flaked oats can lend a bit more sharp “starchiness” to the beer, and if the grist exceeds more than 20% high-protein grains, it can be difficult to maintain colloidal stability.

We utilize a very small (5–8 IBUs) first wort hop addition in nearly every beer we brew, mostly to give us a softer baseline bitterness to build from and to help combat boil-overs in the kettle. But beyond that, all of our other hop additions for NEIPAs take place in the whirlpool. We typically stagger our whirlpool additions over 20–30 minutes, just to bring out more complexity and unique expressions from the hops given the varying time and temperature of those additions. For homebrewers, simplifying it to a larger flameout addition or even utilizing a hop stand would likely produce similar results. We are always trying to find the perfect balance between hop flavor, hop aroma, and hop bitterness, so diversifying the whirlpool schedule has worked well for us.

When it comes to dry hopping, we’ve found leaving the hops in contact 8 or 9 days to be the sweet spot for most of our beers, but we’ve had great results with as few as 5 days. As for total hop loads, one of our most popular beers, Extra Extra Juicy Bits, is dry hopped at nearly 10 lbs./bbl (5 oz. per gallon/37 grams per L) and it’s a surprisingly balanced and drinkable beer despite the extreme dry hop rate. But extended cold conditioning times are a must for heavily dry hopped beers, otherwise hop burn becomes a real issue.

When selecting hops for this style, I think Citra®, Mosaic®, and El Dorado® is a tough combination to beat (Juicy Bits is 1:1:1 of each). When we go to Yakima every year for hop selection and harvest, we’re specifically looking for the complex citrus and tropical fruit expressions of those specific varietals. Our Citra® lots are usually characterized by ripe tangerine and Valencia orange juice, while our Mosaic® lot is a pineapple bomb, and our El Dorado® selection is a tropical fruit medley of candied mango, passion fruit, and papaya.

We use London Ale III almost exclusively for IPAs because we’ve found it’s been the most reliable and consistent in terms of ester production, attenuation, and flocculation. We slightly underpitch so that the added stress promotes ester development, but we also want a somewhat clean, healthy fermentation to ensure proper attenuation and to avoid any phenolics. London Ale III fermented with the right conditions throws delicate stone fruit esters, which are a perfect complement to the citrus and tropical fruit character from most of our hops. Our fermentations stay steady in the 66–69 °F (19–21 °C) range for most IPAs, which has worked well for our fermentation and the start of dry hopping. Oxygen is probably the single most influential factor in brewing New England-style IPAs, so finding ways to keep dissolved oxygen as low as possible would improve your beer more than the quality of your ingredients, equipment, or ANYTHING else that goes into brewing. Every system and setup is different, but purging with CO2 is a must when racking, packaging, and you could even try blanketing with CO2 while dry hopping to minimize the oxygen pick-up

Its worth subscribing to BYO online, lots of useful information, not into this style but a number of Pro brewers give their advice, this is from one of them

 

[Fro-Daddy]

37g/L!? Madness.

 

[GalBrew]

37g/L!? Madness.

That is a bit over the top. There would be a lot of wastage with this, considering you are getting diminishing returns over 8g/l according to research by Tom Shellhammer.