Mashing In....and Out....what The?

[pokolbinguy]

Ok guys go the recipe that I want to do for my 1st AG (Here) calls for a "mash in" of 66deg and a "mash out" of 78deg......now what the heck does this mean???

In addition to that what should be my procedure during the brew cycle be from start to finish???

e.g.

1. Heat HLT

2.
3
4 (insert activities in here)
5
6

7....drain from boiler to cube.

I assume this has been discussed a million times, and if so where should I look...I did a bit of searching but didnt come up with what I was hoping for.

Basically I am looking to make up a plan for my brew day....and want to make sure i get it right...

Cheers, Pok

 

[Tony M]

1. Heat HLT to perhaps 76C. Experience will tell

2.Add 76C water ro crushed grain in your mash tun
3 Adjust temp to 66 with cold or hot water (you have just mashed in)
4 wait an hour and check temp occasionally
6 Raise temp with boiling water to 75-78C stare at it for a few minutes then sparge into boiler.
61/2. Boil preferably for 90 minutes and follow hop addition recommendations
7....drain from boiler to cube.

I assume this has been discussed a million times, and if so where should I look...I did a bit of searching but didnt come up with what I was hoping for.

Basically I am looking to make up a plan for my brew day....and want to make sure i get it right...

 

[mika]

1. Heat HLT to perhaps 76C. Experience will tell

2.Add 76C water ro crushed grain in your mash tun
3 Adjust temp to 66 with cold or hot water (you have just mashed in)
4 wait an hour and check temp occasionally
6 Raise temp with boiling water to 75-78C stare at it for a few minutes then sparge into boiler. <- Mash Out
61/2. Boil preferably for 90 minutes and follow hop addition recommendations
7....drain from boiler to cube.

 

[Zwickel]

Ok guys go the recipe that I want to do for my 1st AG (Here) calls for a "mash in" of 66deg and a "mash out" of 78deg......now what the heck does this mean???

In addition to that what should be my procedure during the brew cycle be from start to finish???

e.g.

1. Heat HLT

2. mash in at a lower temp, such as 35C for example
3 heat up to mashing temp
4 do your mash schedule
5 heat up to mash out temp
6 mashout

I assume this has been discussed a million times, and if so where should I look...I did a bit of searching but didnt come up with what I was hoping for.

Basically I am looking to make up a plan for my brew day....and want to make sure i get it right...

Cheers, Pok

mashing in at a lower temp allows the starch to macerate, prepares the enzymes for theire work and lowers the PH to the desired value
mashing out at 78C deactivates the nzymes, lowers the viscosity oft the wort for lautering

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[jonocarroll]

I'd recommend you have a look at someone else's AG brew day before diving in if you're not sure of the steps. Also, if you are able, check out a couple of books on brewing (Palmer's 'How to Brew' is sort of the bible for brewing, but perhaps a little involved for what you're looking for, but check out the beverage section at a local library; if you're lucky they'll have "The Complete Guide to Home Brewing in Australia" by Laurie Strachan, which is pretty good).

The last thing you want to do is jump in if you don't understand the steps. You won't necessarily get advice in time if you get stuck.

Good luck! :icon_cheers:

 

[Hogan]

Cheers, Pok

This LINK will give you a better idea on the ins and out of mashing.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[pokolbinguy]

When calculating volumes of boiling water (or heated) needed to bring the mash up to the next desired level in a mashing schedule (e.g 40 deg - 60 deg - 70 deg), how do people calculate this???

Does anyone have a simple calculator....maybe a excel spread sheet that will calculate the amount of water needed at "x" temperature to raise the mash temp to the desired level.....or does the likes of beersmith etc have these capabilities.

I noticed the formula in the "How to brew - John Palmer" online version that I am reading at the moment and figured someone would have put it into a automatic version by now.

Cheers, Pok

 

[drsmurto]

My bad. Dodgy use of the english language.

Mash in is actually the mash temp i used but is probably not the correct use of this term.

Mash out is the final temp before sparging begins. I use boiling water to increase the temp from 66 to 78.

As others have said, if you havent seen an AG done, do so.

Beersmith (or equiv) will calculate volumes/temps for you.

If you go to the discussion thread for that recipe you will find a beersmith file on page 2. Download that to see what i do. A 70% efficiency is a good place to start IMO

 

[pokolbinguy]

Damn bad time to buy brewsmith with the way the $AUD is at the moment....$21.95US = $34AUD....

 

[mika]

Promash has a 'Mash deisgner' that allows you to work out stepped mash temps and that kinda thing. Would have thought Beersmith would have had something similar, if not a quick search in google should find you some kind of spreadsheet.

 

[matti]

Damn bad time to buy brewsmith with the way the $AUD is at the moment....$21.95US = $34AUD....

hehe.
Still cheap though as it is so useful.

I hope it goes well though.
:icon_cheers:

 

[clean brewer]

Hey Pok,

I believe it is very beneficial to have Beersmith on your side, it lasts forever(once off payment), once youve put in your recipe based on your ingredients/equipment etc you then print off a recipe sheet which then basically gives you every step along the way of your brewday. Pretty much the first question you asked on here..

Seriously though, maybe hold off a little, check out someone elses brewday and watch closely and you will understand it much more, if I hadnt watched Screwy in action(even on his HERMS system) I think my 1st AG wouldnt have went so well, if you dont really understand it the first time, more than likely you wont understand it the 2nd time...

Cheers mate..

 

[pokolbinguy]

Alrigthy so after a bit of reading, the answers from the guys in this thread and some fiddling with promash I now understand this whole process much better.

More reading to be done though....Palmer's book "how to brew" is a wealth of info....thank god for the online version

Thanks Folks.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Polk..

Dont worry about mash out.

If you batch sparge, just tip in a litre or 2 of BOILING water to the mash at the and of the 60 mins. This will do the mashout bit.

Keep using boiling water for sparging, dont worry, by the time you get 28ltrs of wort in the kettle, the grain bed will still only be around 85-88*c

 

[smudge]

Pok,

It's a very forgiving process so don't stress too much. This link to G&G's site has a great strike temp calculator -

at the bottom of the page here. Main thing is to enjoy yourself. Ducatiboy Stu has some good advice too.

Cheers,
smudge

Here is the same calculator in Excel format. View attachment Strike_Temperature_Calculator.xls that a mate put together from the G&G article.

 

[BOG]

So what is the impact of adding boiling water to your mash out / sparge instead on 78deg water.

I understand mash out and the temp required for shutting down conversion but would you not draw astrigent flavours (cannot think of the term) out of the grain with boiling water.

I'm guessing that 78deg to 85deg is proberbly not a big deal. But boiling water is different.


Anyone?


BOG

 

[jonocarroll]

The term you're thinking of is 'tannins' - the dry biting taste you get in a red wine or stringy banana peel bits. From what I've read, much above 78C will draw the tannins out of the husks.

That said, it's probably not a bad bet to go with boiling or slightly cooled from boiling water on the first attempt. IF you notice tannins in there you have an idea of where they came from and can make the adjustments for next time.

Back to the original point - Mashing in is the addition of strike water to the grain. 'Doughing in' is a slightly different process where you add slightly cooler water and let it sit for a while (a protein rest, not really required for good Aussie modified malts) then bump the temperature up. Mashing out is the addition of hotter water (and a small rest) to denature the enzymes and stop conversion, and also assists with sparging - the rinsing of the grains.

All of this is forgiving. The main reasons for learning the terms are; to know how what you are doing affects your beer, and; to be able to communicate these ideas properly.

All the best with it! :icon_cheers:

 

[smudge]

BOG,

I think the critical factor in avoiding astringency (tannins) is to do with pH, not necessarily temperature. Probably the
world's biggest exponent of batch sparging is Denny Conn in the US who has written heaps of articles (and posts on various
forums) on the subject.

For the same reason, doing single, double, triple decoctions where you are boiling a thick portion of the mash for some time,
doesn't cause tannin extraction.

"The advantages of batch sparging are no (or reduced) worries about pH because you are not continually diluting the
buffering power of the grains" from one of his articles on the 'how to' of batch sparging here

This is all assuming that Pok is actually batch sparging. I haven't gone back through his adventure to check.

Cheers,
smudge

 

[newguy]

The term you're thinking of is 'tannins' - the dry biting taste you get in a red wine or stringy banana peel bits. From what I've read, much above 78C will draw the tannins out of the husks.

That said, it's probably not a bad bet to go with boiling or slightly cooled from boiling water on the first attempt. IF you notice tannins in there you have an idea of where they came from and can make the adjustments for next time.

Tannin extraction is a function of temperature and mash pH. Think of decoctions where a portion of the mash is boiled and added back to the mash to raise the temperature of the whole. No astringency problems there, as long as the mash pH is below 5.8, but realistically it should be below 5.5 or so for a decoction.

When I mashed in a cooler, I'd do step mashes by adding boiling water to hit my next target. There's no issues whatsoever with adding boiling water to your mash, so long as the pH of the whole stays below 5.8. The only real issue is learning how much boiling water you'll need in order to hit your next target. You'll probably miss your targets the first two or three times you brew, but after that you'll start to hit your targets reliably. But missing targets does not mean spoiled beer. Relax, pay attention to sanitation (the single most important issue) and your beer will turn out fine.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

If you use boiling water straight in the tun, you wont have to raise it to 78*c ....


You would be supprised at how little the grain bed temp raises with boiling water.

You are really only adding 3-4ltrs at a time which wont raise the temp dramaticlly. Thats why it is safe, and also acheives your mashout.