Malt Profile Of Kits - The Biggest Problem With K&k?

[maltedhopalong]

Hi Guys, asked the below question in another thread but its a separate issue so hence the new thread.

I brewed a Brewcraft Dutch Lager kit with 1kg of DME plus 250g dex and some hop additions for bitterness and aroma/taste

I have a problem though...

The malt profile is nothing like a dutch lager. Ok, yes I didn't add any specialty malts to try and get it there, true.

But i figured the malt profile of the kit would be pretty similar. Instead the malt profile came out the same as every other kit that I've done (excluding porters/stouts etc). It's like an English bitter, dark in flavour (ignoring colour). But not roasted either, just sharp and heavy. Compared to what I was looking for, smooth, even bready (well, that's how I would describe it :unsure: ) and sweet.

Surely there must be some difference in the flavour of malt used in kits from one style to another...??? Surely if a company puts out two different kits that happen to have the same EBC and IBU attributes they wouldn't be the same thing???? SURELY THIS IS MY FAULT????

 

[boingk]

This is why I tend to stick to what I've personally experienced, and the hell with company marketers that think "Oh, they won't know the difference!" and bullshit their customers.

Word, bucko - THEY DO!

A good base for the Dutch lager you're after I'd say is a tin of Wal's Lager, 500g LDME, 250 each of dex and maltodex, as well as a stack of Tettnanger. I like to throw in some specialty grain as well. They sell the sugar/malt combo as UltraBrew, and one with lactose as Euroblend. Check out countrybrewer.com if you haven't already. If you're after something really light, go the Coopers Mexican Cerveza. I found that that was actually one of the more refined kits I've tried, with very mellow malting and bitterness - right on style.

Cheers - boingk

 

[maltedhopalong]

Heh, I thought this thread would excite a bit more heated anti-kitters but anyway.

Can anyone suggest where i can find what specialty grains I should be looking at? I'm thinking I should look at pilsner recipes as there aren't too many "dutch lager" recipes, imo the only difference is that dutch lagers would be slightly less hopped and with tettnanger/halertau instead of saaz. Consensus?

 

[PostModern]

Heh, I thought this thread would excite a bit more heated anti-kitters but anyway.

Nothing wrong with kits as long as you know their limitations. Looks like you've found one.

 

[maltedhopalong]

I wish I just loved Farmland Draught, life would be so much simpler :sigh:

 

[earle]

This is exactly the reason I've moved towards extract and light kits as base, then adding spec malts. You know what you're putting in there and you have much more control. It probably won't help with a Dutch lager but I picked up the following book when I was in Melbourne recently. For other each of the 80 or so BJCP styles it has an extract + spec grain recipe, though some of the spec grains are unavailable here and you need to figure out equivalents.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8553

 

[boingk]

Can anyone suggest where i can find what specialty grains I should be looking at? I'm thinking I should look at pilsner recipes as there aren't too many "dutch lager" recipes, imo the only difference is that dutch lagers would be slightly less hopped and with tettnanger/halertau instead of saaz. Consensus?

From what I've been able to gather Dutch lagers are fairly well balanced, and I favour Tettnang over Sazz for them. I throw in some specialty grain to boot - have a play with around 200g of either Munich, Vienna or Crystal to see what you like the best. Made my recipe above up with Munich last year and an S-23 yeast and a few mates said that after 2 months it was a dead ringer for Heineken. Its one of my favourites actually! If you want a cleaner yeast, however, use either S-189 or a good liquid one. If lager temps are unavailable go for US-05 as it is a very clean yeast and better than fermenting a lager outside of true temps IMO.

This is exactly the reason I've moved towards extract and light kits as base, then adding spec malts.

I'm moving more this way myself - kits are fine and all, but I can buy malt extract and do the damn thing myself, you know? You can make it to your specifications, however you want, whatever style you want! The only real limitation is what you can think of and what ingredients you can get - the latter is pretty easy to remedy and the former can be given some hinters buy going through the unfamiliar alphabet of beers: every time in the bottle-o, grab a single bottle [or sixy] of beer you haven't had before...just to see what its like

Cheers - boingk

 

[earle]

and the former can be given some hinters buy going through the unfamiliar alphabet of beers: every time in the bottle-o, grab a single bottle [or sixy] of beer you haven't had before...just to see what its like

Definitely, my wife helps me now to get me out of the bottlo quickly, however because she keeps handing me different beers and saying 'what about this one?' I usually leave with about twice as many as I would have chosen by myself.

 

[quadbox]

My local first choice is evil like that. There's about a twenty metre walk past all the belgian, german and english imports before you get to the coopers sparkling