Low Or No Alcohol Beer

[ArnieW]

A good friend of mine is on some pretty heavy duty medication which means no consumption of alcohol. This got me to thinking about some basic physics and that alcohol evaporates at less than 100C.

Without getting into the science of it, I tried a quick and imprecise method of lowering alcohol the other day - and was pleasantly surprised with the results.

Step 1: Pour beer (in our case a hefeweissen) from tap into PET bottle (to get the right volume for later).
Step 2: Pour beer into open saucepan and heat gently until simmering. (And smell the alcohol evaporating - just like a still for those who've operated one).
Step 3: Allow beer in saucepan to chill sufficiently and then pour back into PET bottle.
Step 4: Chill and then gas the contents. In our case we have one of those cap thingys that allows you to gas up a PET bottle with a standard gas fitting.
Step 5: Drink and enjoy as much of it as you want.

The result was much better than I had expected. While I don't know exactly what % alcohol was left (if any - anybody got any ideas about how to measure?), the result was not that dissimilar to the original beer. It had less flavour and was a bit sterile in that clean commercial lager sense. If anything, the flavour was slightly sweeter as though caramelised.

While this may not be a very kind thing to do to a nicely crafted beer, for special occasions like this one the effort is worth it. I could certainly have kept drinking this modified beer all night without any trouble. Still much nicer than most beer you can buy.

cheers, Arnie

 

[drsmurto]

A good friend of mine is on some pretty heavy duty medication which means no consumption of alcohol. This got me to thinking about some basic physics and that alcohol evaporates at less than 100C.

Without getting into the science of it, I tried a quick and imprecise method of lowering alcohol the other day - and was pleasantly surprised with the results.

Step 1: Pour beer (in our case a hefeweissen) from tap into PET bottle (to get the right volume for later).
Step 2: Pour beer into open saucepan and heat gently until simmering. (And smell the alcohol evaporating - just like a still for those who've operated one).
Step 3: Allow beer in saucepan to chill sufficiently and then pour back into PET bottle.
Step 4: Chill and then gas the contents. In our case we have one of those cap thingys that allows you to gas up a PET bottle with a standard gas fitting.
Step 5: Drink and enjoy as much of it as you want.

The result was much better than I had expected. While I don't know exactly what % alcohol was left (if any - anybody got any ideas about how to measure?), the result was not that dissimilar to the original beer. It had less flavour and was a bit sterile in that clean commercial lager sense. If anything, the flavour was slightly sweeter as though caramelised.

While this may not be a very kind thing to do to a nicely crafted beer, for special occasions like this one the effort is worth it. I could certainly have kept drinking this modified beer all night without any trouble. Still much nicer than most beer you can buy.

cheers, Arnie

There is one unfortunate flaw in your plan. And that is that you will reduce the volume of your beer by way more than just the alcohol. Whilst alcohol, or more precisely, ethanol boils at 78.4 degC you are using a method called azeotroping. This is a method to remove water from an organic solvent by addition of ethanol (or benzene). What that means is that you will remove water and ethanol at the same time.

Thinking about that a bit more. At only 5% alcohol this effect will be quite small. Chemistry answer aside, you will also be reducing the hops flavour/aroma and massively reducing the carbonation since at higher temperatures, the amount of gas that dissolves is lowered.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

what about driving off the alcohol post fermentation but before bottling?

 

[drsmurto]

what about driving off the alcohol post fermentation but before bottling?

removing alcohol from water is a tricky task. They are very similar chemicals in a lot of ways and really really like mixing with each other.

Complicated distillation equipment is needed and this will screw up flavours aroma not to mention that beer probably isnt going to like being distilled. What happens when you heat sugar solutions? They darken quite quickly and whilst the amount of sugar is a fermented beer is low, its still there.

the easiest method to get a low or no alcohol beer is to either buy it that way or brew a much lower ABV beer which once you get below 2.5-3% is going to taste watery.

Birrel anyone? :unsure:

 

[fixa]

A little OT, but i was watching a show (what's good for you or something) a couple of months ago, and they said that the whole "no alcohol with medication" thing is crap. Apparently it was a story made up by doctors in the early 1900's (i think) when they were giving out penicillan due to VD. They found that if they told the patients no alcohol whilst on this medication, it stopped them getting pissed, therefore procreating with the opposite sex, and spreading the disease. Somehow this got into wider circulation and it seemed that every drug you take you can't have alcohol with it...
DISCLAIMER: My wife is a nurse, she has all those little drug books at home. SOME DRUGS really do have a reaction to alcohol.. but not many!!

 

[drsmurto]

Yep, 4/5ths of FA cant be taken with alcohol. The Drs who suggest not to drink whilst on prescriptions are more than likely trying to ensure you stay hydrated which in turns, helps you overcomes bugs faster.

I regularly wash panadol etc down with a beer.

 

[geoffi]

"the easiest method to get a low or no alcohol beer is to either buy it that way or brew a much lower ABV beer which once you get below 2.5-3% is going to taste watery."

And yet Arnie says his technique worked for him.

In fact I've read something about this before. It's by no means a first.

I suppose in the absence of a lab, the easiest way to tell if it worked is to drink a shitload an see if you get pissed.

Not scientific, but sometimes the anecdotal evidence will suffice.

 

[Mr Bond]

I regularly wash panadol etc down with a beer.

This may cause you to re assess that technique.

 

[Stuster]

Arnie, if your friend is really being strict about the no alcohol then this method may not work that well, unless you are prepared to simmer for three hours.

The table at the bottom of this page shows that after 15 minutes of boiling, 40% of what alcohol was there will still be present. That's for cooking of course, but it does suggest that just a quick boil might not be enough.

Brauluver's right on the money. Definitely don't mix panadol and alcohol. If you've got a hangover or you're going to drink, just take an aspirin instead.

 

[mikem108]

Apparently the yeast in Birrel (made by coopers) yeilds very low levels of alcohol, so if you can get your hands on that....

 

[drsmurto]

This may cause you to re assess that technique.

No offence intended Braulover but wikipedia MUST be taken with a grain of salt. Its not peer reviewed to any intelligent extent and should be seen as a forum of ideas/information rather than palming itself of as some sort of enyclopedia of knowledge.

Rant over.... can you point me to the part of that article that actually says alcohol + paracetomol together are bad for me?

 

[Darren]

Yep, 4/5ths of FA cant be taken with alcohol. The Drs who suggest not to drink whilst on prescriptions are more than likely trying to ensure you stay hydrated which in turns, helps you overcomes bugs faster.

I regularly wash panadol etc down with a beer.

I didn't read the article, but I do know than paracetamol overdose is the most common reason for liver transplantation.

Its sad because people think they will overdose with the stuff, it doesn't affect them until a couple of days later (when they may have changed their minds) and their liver is rooted for life.

Having said that I have been known to have the odd prophylactic panadol in anticipation of a hangover

cheers

Darren

 

[Stuster]

No offence intended Braulover but wikipedia MUST be taken with a grain of salt. Its not peer reviewed to any intelligent extent and should be seen as a forum of ideas/information rather than palming itself of as some sort of enyclopedia of knowledge.

Rant over.... can you point me to the part of that article that actually says alcohol + paracetomol together are bad for me?

In the absence of Brauluver, here are some for you, Dr Smurto. (Acetaminophen is paracetamol.)

Link
More
Enough already

 

[RussTaylor]

This is an article on boiling off the alcohol that I bookmarked a few months ago but have never been game enough to try it...

http://byo.com/feature/66.html

Let us know how you get on.

Russ

 

[drsmurto]

In the absence of Brauluver, here are some for you, Dr Smurto. (Acetaminophen is paracetamol.)

Link
More
Enough already

Good links Stuster but i may need to enlighten you on the language of the scientist....

'Chronic heavy drinking appears to activate the enzyme CYP2E1 in the liver. That enzyme may be responsible for transforming acetaminophen into chemicals that can cause liver damage.'

Appears to and may be are scientific terms for $#^%$& if we know but the tiny bits of data we have point to this so we will say it anyway.

Again, not trying to offend anyone but a search of peer reviewed literature (ie. credible sources) doesnt provide any definitive proof that alcohol and paracetamol combined will cause liver damage. Its a theory, i accept that, but one that needs a lot more evidence.

Besides - paracetomol is a very poor pain reliever - aspirin is much better, codeine even better and morphine is divine h34r:

Enough of me being OT.... and apologies for the nerdy comments, us scientists dont get out enough....

Cheers
DrSmurto
p.s. take my advice with a cup of salt....

 

[Stuster]

True enough, Dr Smurto. No need to enlighten me on the use of such language though. It does seem that the doubt is more to do with the method of liver damage rather than the result. That the USDA made this a warning for all acetominophen packages in the US (obviously not something the fairly powerful drug companies would have wanted) is enough for me to switch to aspirin to be on the safe side.

Acetaminophen: "Alcohol Warning: If you consume 3 or more alcoholic drinks every day, ask your doctor whether you should take acetaminophen or other pain relievers/fever reducers. Acetaminophen may cause liver damage."

BTW, if you have any spare morphine that you can send to me for pain relief testing purposes I'll be happy to oblige.

 

[Mr Bond]

Thanks for the backup Stuster.I'm with u on this one.
Dr Smurto,no offence taken my skin is thick as.I just thought it was an interesting link that can't be totally dismissed or ignored.
Codeine is my fave painkiller anyway.

 

[ArnieW]

Arnie, if your friend is really being strict about the no alcohol then this method may not work that well, unless you are prepared to simmer for three hours.

The table at the bottom of this page shows that after 15 minutes of boiling, 40% of what alcohol was there will still be present. That's for cooking of course, but it does suggest that just a quick boil might not be enough.

Brauluver's right on the money. Definitely don't mix panadol and alcohol. If you've got a hangover or you're going to drink, just take an aspirin instead.

Thanks Stuster, and to Brauluver too for actually trying to respond in the spirit that this thread began. But does anyone have a method to actually 'measure' the amount of alcohol left after evaporation?

 

[Mr Bond]

sorry to go OT there arnie

This link is all I've got stored in my links,worth a read.

 

[drsmurto]

Thanks Stuster, and to Brauluver too for actually trying to respond in the spirit that this thread began. But does anyone have a method to actually 'measure' the amount of alcohol left after evaporation?

Send me a bottle of your low alcohol beer and i can measure it. boss is away for 6 weeks so now is time to test my soil, water etc for nutrients etc so a few beer samples wont be out of place. With the equipment i have i could get down to 5-6 decimal places.....

No worries lads (Stuster, Brauluver ), glad no offence was taken. I do agree, aspirin, and codeine are far better and no, the morphine is mine, all mine! ANd with alkl the beer we drink, the alcohol will affect our livers long before the paracetamol!

Cheers! :beer:
DrSmurto