Improving Effiency

[KHB]

Pumps sure are handy

 

[newguy]

can someone remind me of the basic equation for working out efficiency again?

efficiency = your actual gravity/max gravity possible from your malt

In NA, the measure of a malt's extract potential is its points/lb/gallon. Ordinary pale 2 row is 36 or 37. So that means that if you mash exactly one pound of that malt and gather exactly one gallon of wort, the maximum OG you can expect is 1.037.

Let's say you made a beer with 100% pale 2 row, say 8 lbs for a 5 gallon batch. (8 x 37)/5 = 59.2. In other words, if you had a perfect 100% efficiency, you'd get an OG of 1.059. Now let's assume that your actual OG was 1.050. Your system efficiency is 50/59.2 = .845 = 84.5%.

Once you know your efficiency, you use that to formulate your grain bill like this:

Choose a target OG and multiply this gravity by the finished volume to calculate the required gravity units of extract (GU). [Example: 1.050 target OG, 50 points x 5 gallon = 250 GU]

Next, take your grist and break it up into percentages. For instance, a dunkelweizen would be 50% munich malt and 50% wheat malt.

So,
50% wheat x 250 GU = 125 GU. Required qty of wheat = 125/(your efficiency x 38 pts/lb/gal for wheat) = x lbs wheat. Convert to kg if you wish.
50% munich x 250 GU = 125 GU. Required qty of munich = 125/(your efficiency x 34 pts/lb/gal for munich) = y lbs munich.

Sorry for the imperial units. They're the ones in use here, even though Canada is metric. Hope this clears it up for you.

 

[pb unleaded]

can someone remind me of the basic equation for working out efficiency again?

EFF=OG*LT*100/307/KG

 

[gerald]

and how do i do this in promash??

 

[3G]

Out of interest how fast do you sparge when batch sparging? Ive always done it for maybe 10 mins each time but remember reading somewhere to sparge as fast as possible with batch sparging.

 

[newguy]

When I first got my HERMS together, I'd drain very slowly. My efficiency was 85%. Then I got annoyed with the amount of time it was taking and started doing my drains quickly. And my efficiency stayed at 85%. Makes sense now that I think about it - since I recirculate even with the 2nd addition/lauter, the sugars dissolve into the water during the recirculation. Drain speed then doesn't matter.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

If batch sparging give it a good stir and drain as fast as the system will allow

Cheers

 

[Screwtop]

When I first got my HERMS together, I'd drain very slowly. My efficiency was 85%. Then I got annoyed with the amount of time it was taking and started doing my drains quickly. And my efficiency stayed at 85%. Makes sense now that I think about it - since I recirculate even with the 2nd addition/lauter, the sugars dissolve into the water during the recirculation. Drain speed then doesn't matter.

Changing to HERMS increased my efficiency a couple of points, fly sparging gives me a higher efficiency over batch sparging on my system. For both batch sparging and fly sparging, slow draining provides higher efficiency than fast draining. On my system, draining over 1 hour gives higher efficiency than draining over 30 min, but longer than 1 hour does not increase efficiency further. My efficiency is generally around 87% into the boiler.

Screwy

 

[Thirsty Boy]

i stir it and recurculate it back onto itself for 2 mins before sparging

I think you might have just named your reason for relatively low efficiency in your batch sparge system.

You -

Stir - recirculate - sparge

You should -

Add sparge water - stir - rest - recirculate - drain

You can drain it as fast as it will go without getting stuck, I disagree with Screwtop, in a batch sparge I think it will make no difference to the efficiency. It certainly will in a fly sparge though.


Unless I have misinterpreted what you were saying??

TB

 

[newguy]

Changing to HERMS increased my efficiency a couple of points, fly sparging gives me a higher efficiency over batch sparging on my system. For both batch sparging and fly sparging, slow draining provides higher efficiency than fast draining. On my system, draining over 1 hour gives higher efficiency than draining over 30 min, but longer than 1 hour does not increase efficiency further. My efficiency is generally around 87% into the boiler.

Before the HERMS I mashed in two separate coolers. Basically I made 2 separate 5 gallon batches, then collected everything in one kettle. I did this because I couldn't find a cheap cooler which was large enough to mash everything at once. Anyway, my efficiency was 70% on that system. I batch sparged on that system as well. Drain speed made no difference to efficiency back then either. My biggest efficiency gain is definitely due to the HERMS.

 

[Maxt]

Why would you want to stir the grain bed? Seems to make no sense to mess up the very thing you are trying to achieve, a filter through the grain bed.

Also an above comment about 'run off as fast as your system allows'. That goes against common sense (Unless you want channeling)

I reckon that if you are going to dump all your sparge water in at once, do it slowly and gently, disturbing the grain bed as little as possible (ie run it through a colander). Or even better, just run it through a colander at the same rate as it is running into your kettle. Watch your efficiency rise then as you enter the realm of (modified) fly sparging. You don't even need a march pump etc, you can just jug the water in every few minutes.
I think anyone who is sparging faster that 1L/min is on the wrong track.
Just my 10c.

 

[KHB]

Just wondering if doing a mash out-lifting mash temp to 75 degrees for 10mins will make any diff to my efficiency??

 

[Stuster]

It might, KHB. It'll certainly make the wort less viscous which can release more sugars into solution. I do a quick n dirty mash out, just adding hotter water and not waiting any time. Works to avoid any stuck mashes (if my braid doesn't come loose ). Only one way to tell on your system really.

Maxt, that's just batch sparging for you. Works well for me and many others. Usual efficiency is in the 80s.

 

[KHB]

Yeah i think im gonna give it a go

 

[devo]

Why would you want to stir the grain bed? Seems to make no sense to mess up the very thing you are trying to achieve, a filter through the grain bed.

yes, I was thinking the very same thing.

 

[Adamt]

It might, KHB. It'll certainly make the wort less viscous which can release more sugars into solution. I do a quick n dirty mash out, just adding hotter water and not waiting any time. Works to avoid any stuck mashes (if my braid doesn't come loose ). Only one way to tell on your system really.

Maxt, that's just batch sparging for you. Works well for me and many others. Usual efficiency is in the 80s.

Actually it will allow more sugars to dissolve in the solution... the water will be less viscous but the higher sugar concentration in solution will counteract the decrease. Sorry to be anal retentive

 

[Darren]

Actually it will allow more sugars to dissolve in the solution... the water will be less viscous but the higher sugar concentration in solution will counteract the decrease. Sorry to be anal retentive

Hey Adam,

Anal retention or not I am unsure I understand.

Agree that more sugar dissolves in the solution. Water must become more viscous with the addition of sugar??. Counteraction of the decrease in what?


PS: Stirring the mash may seem counterintuitive but in theory it will help. Once stirred, the larger particles will settle first and at the bottom of the tun. The lighter/smaller (mash sticking) particles will settle on top of the bed helping a clearer faster run-off.


cheers

Darren

 

[Screwtop]

You can drain it as fast as it will go without getting stuck, I disagree with Screwtop, in a batch sparge I think it will make no difference to the efficiency. It certainly will in a fly sparge though.


Unless I have misinterpreted what you were saying??

TB

TB, details were from experimentation and experience using my system. Another observation is that the less the mash bed is disturbed the higher the efficiency on my system when fly sparging.

To Clarify:

Changing to HERMS increased my efficiency a couple of points, fly sparging gives me a higher efficiency over batch sparging on my system. For both batch sparging and fly sparging, slow draining provides higher efficiency than fast draining on my system. On my system, draining over 1 hour gives higher efficiency than draining over 30 min, but longer than 1 hour does not increase efficiency further. My efficiency is generally around 87% into the boiler.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Adamt]

Hey Adam,

Anal retention or not I am unsure I understand.

Agree that more sugar dissolves in the solution. Water must become more viscous with the addition of sugar??. Counteraction of the decrease in what?


PS: Stirring the mash may seem counterintuitive but in theory it will help. Once stirred, the larger particles will settle first and at the bottom of the tun. The lighter/smaller (mash sticking) particles will settle on top of the bed helping a clearer faster run-off.


cheers

Darren

The decrease i was referring to was the viscosity decrease of water due to rising temperature.

 

[Screwtop]

PS: Stirring the mash may seem counterintuitive but in theory it will help. Once stirred, the larger particles will settle first and at the bottom of the tun. The lighter/smaller (mash sticking) particles will settle on top of the bed helping a clearer faster run-off.

Darren, On my system it's the small/fine/flour particles settling on top of the grainbed that create a somewhat impervious layer which results in channeling around the sides of the grainbed and lower efficiency. The more I stir the mash the worse this muddy layer seems to be. Guess it's the stirring that brings the fine particles into solution and naturally they settle last on top of the grainbed forming a sticky covering and preventing sparge water from filtering down through the surface of the grainbed evenly.

Cheers,

Screwy