Imperial Ipa Recipe Critique

[MattC]

Hi guys, I put this on the flavour of the week thread yesterday but didnt get alot of replies (BTW thanks to the two that did) so i thought a more specific thread title may get some more opinions....

Have a variety of hops that are getting on and i need to use them along with some recently purchased hops. I thought I would try my hand at my first Imperial IPA and i would like some constructive critique. I am confident with the mix of cascade, simcoe and galaxy. But not sure how Perle would go mixed with those 3 as I havnt used it before.

Here tis..

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Double IPA
Brewer: Matt Cawley
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 28.00 L
Boil Size: 35.67 L
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated Color: 16.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 90.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)Grain 82.90 %
0.30 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 3.11 %
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (95.0 EBC) Grain 3.11 %
0.30 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (17.7 EBC) Grain 3.11 %
5.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
15.00 gm Cascade Flowers [7.80 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)Hops -
10.00 gm Simcoe [12.20 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
15.00 gm Galaxy-Flowers [14.20 %] (Dry Hop 7 days)Hops -
5.00 gm Perle [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
10.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (60 min) Hops 7.7 IBU
5.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (60 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
10.00 gm Perle [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 8.4 IBU
10.00 gm Simcoe [12.20 %] (60 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
7.50 gm Simcoe [12.20 %] (40 min) Hops 6.8 IBU
10.00 gm Perle [8.50 %] (40 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (40 min) Hops 10.0 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (40 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (20 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
10.00 gm Perle [8.50 %] (20 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
7.50 gm Simcoe [12.20 %] (20 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
10.00 gm Perle [8.50 %] (10 min) Hops 1.7 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (10 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
7.50 gm Simcoe [12.20 %] (10 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (2 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
10.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (2 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
7.50 gm Simcoe [12.20 %] (2 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
10.00 gm Perle [8.50 %] (2 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
4.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 60.0 min) Misc
0.75 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 7.77 %
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 8.90 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 23.23 L of water at 72.4 C 66.0 C

 

[big_dazza27]

Hey Matt,

I've been looking into doing my first AG IPA for the past week. Your recipe looks very similar to one that i have come up with (haven't entered into beersmith yet) besides the perle and i had a touch more crystal and munich instead of wheat.

However i like the idea of perle as early and flavour addition, don't know how it would go as a late addition though. Not saying it wouldn't be fantastic, just saying i haven't tried it as a late addition.

Have you thought about dry hop additions? Cascade and Galaxy dry hopped in secondary = :icon_drool2:

Darran

edit: just saw the dry hop additions up the top, go for it!!

 

[schooey]

My random thoughts as follows;

- You've whacked in 90 IBU of hops, plus a bundle of dry hops.... To my taste, I would have added a little more malt backbone to hold that up by subbing a couple of kilos of the base malt with Munich or Vienna.

- If it were me, I'd probably mash it at 65 or even 64...

- I would add the sugar addition in in two additions on day 2 and day three of the ferment.


I'd like to hear what the more experienced brewers here think of additions at 60, 40, 20, 10 & 2 mins... I'm not so sure what the benefit of such a complicated schedule is?

 

[MattC]

thanks guys, I did toy with idea of adding a bit of munich as I dont feel the BB ale malt offers alot in terms of malt profile, but after all this beer is a showcase for the hops and I didnt want to have too much of an obvious malt profile. An addition of say 2 kg of munich 1 as a sub for some of the BB ale wouldnt add too much in terms of malt character??.

The hop schedule is simply a draft at present, but I wanted to add it as such to make a complex hop profile that wasnt simply derived from a 60 min bittering addition and a 10 min flvour then dry hops.

As far as the sugar goes, yeah schooey, I think you may be on the money there. I have done that with a couple of belgians to ensure the attenuation is high enough to guarantee a dry finish in these bigger beers, so prob will give that a go.

With the sugar I was hoping for a high attenuation anyway so i thought the mash temp of 66 and not lower would have prevented a too high attentuation as this beer should have med-light to med body. But do you feel that the body would finish OK from mashing @ 64 or 65?

Cheers

 

[schooey]

Like I said, if it were me, I'd have the munich in there to balance out the IBU's; I don't think that malt profile will be unbalanced or affect what you are trying to achieve with hop flavour. Given that you then have that malt profile and the body you are going to get from the truckload of grain, you don't need a really warm mash... This is just advice I have gleaned from some very experienced brewers, a couple of them being pro brewers.

Re: The hop additions, it wasn't something I was comfortable giving advice on, but was also curious about. I'm just about to bottle a big IIPA that I did in 60, 30, 15, 0 additions.... I was just wondering if there are any benefits/downsides to adding in more additions

 

[reviled]

Personally id play around with the malt grist a lil bit to beef it up, similair to what schooey is saying..

Id probably look at something like

10% Munich, 7% CaraPils, 3% Crystal 40L and 6% sugar

Get rid of the wheat too IMO, youll get more than enough head retention from thethe carapils and hop resins

Also alot of IIPA recipes I have seen and the best ones I have tried have additions at 90, 60, 30 and then nothing until 0 mins, I think the 20 and 15 additions can muddle the malt character a wee bit, not to mention you get more than enough flavour from the bittering and dry hop additions...

My 2 cents :icon_cheers:

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

This was my malt bill for an Imperial I currently have on tap. An OG of 1.090 and Fg of 1.014. Mind you it was a whopping 260 IBU's. A bit of crystal and dark malt for colour. You really don't want to much crystal. An Imperial really needs to finish as low as possible and the beer itself is more about the hops and IBU's more so than actual body / maltiness ? My current monster is at 9% abv but you wouldn't think so.

Joe White Ale (5.9 EBC) Grain 65.58 %
Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 27.87 %
Bairds Pale Crystal (90.0 EBC) Grain 3.11 %
Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 3.11 %
Bairds Black Malt (1300.0 EBC) Grain 0.16 %
Bairds Roast Barley (1300.0 EBC) Grain 0.16 %

Cheers
BYB

 

[schooey]

You really don't want to much crystal. An Imperial really needs to finish as low as possible and the beer itself is more about the hops and IBU's more so than actual body / maltiness ? My current monster is at 9% abv but you wouldn't think so.

Agree with this though I think there are some different interpretations of the 'should be all about the hops' bit... In my experience, the best examples of this style have well balanced malt/hop flavour/bitterness profiles with a bias toward the hop flavour/bitterness. Examples that I have made and tasted that have no malt balance tend to be a bit one dimensional. If you can get hold of it, get a Murray's Icon IIPA. IMHO it is one of the best balanced IIPA's out there and it's definitely still all about the hops!

 

[bum]

An Imperial really needs to finish as low as possible and the beer itself is more about the hops and IBU's more so than actual body / maltiness ?

To my mind, it sorta depends. A great many AIIPAs (which his hopping seems to suggest he's chasing to me) aren't all that dry. Pretty chewy, in fact. It is all a matter of personal taste, of course, but I don't see his crystal being so high as to imbalance the beer (the carapils inclusion is a little supurfluous, however).

 

[MattC]

I have read that the max taste threshold for IBU's is around the 100 mark, so why do brewers and breweries attemp to create beers that theoretically go much higher than this?

 

[bum]

Because more hops still means more hop flavour and aroma even if more IBUs doesn't always mean more perceived bitterness.

Always been my take on it anyway.

 

[Josh]

I reckon you can get plenty of malt character from the sheer abundance of pale ale malt. His OG is 1.085. Even if that was achieved with 90% Pale ale malt and 10% cane sugar, it's still gonna be big malty bad boy.

Having tasted a few IIPAs in the US recently, I've decided the ones I prefer are the ones that don't get too muddled up with complex maltiness or crystal sweetness.

The next time I brew a IIPA I'll be keeping it simple for the malt bill. Probably go with the above. Then for hopping I'll probably stick with one or two hop varieties @ 60, 10, cube and dry.

I'll also be toying with IPAs cube and dry hopped only. But that is another thread.

 

[manticle]

Re: The hop additions, it wasn't something I was comfortable giving advice on, but was also curious about. I'm just about to bottle a big IIPA that I did in 60, 30, 15, 0 additions.... I was just wondering if there are any benefits/downsides to adding in more additions

I am certainly not Mr experience with hoppy beers - however I have found that the profile given from hobursting can be a bit more complex than simple 20, 10 and 0 minute additions. It gives a kind of layering effect in my fairly limited experience.

 

[bum]

I'll also be toying with IPAs cube and dry hopped only. But that is another thread.

Some of the discussion in this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=46298 may be of use to you in this regard. Make sure you do make a thread about it because I am very interested to hear your results.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

If you want to try a great example of an Imperial IPA IMHO you can't go past Souther Tier Unearthly. I was very fortunate to try it earlier this year and it was f***ing brilliant. I have noticed that you can buy it here at Craftbrewer

Southern Tier Brewing Company

BYB