Hops Flavour

[jason]

Hey all, just need some advice on hops flavour. I brewed the following:

Type: All Grain
Date: 6/11/2006
Batch Size: 18.93 L

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 85.4 %
0.40 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 9.8 %
0.20 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 4.9 %
17.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00%] (60 min) Hops 19.7 IBU
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (15 min) Hops 10.9 IBU
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (5 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
40.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (1 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
18.93 L Sydney, Aus Water
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

After a month in bottles, i gave it a try. And it was pretty good. But I was a little dissapointed with the amarillo flavour, as I was expecting more of that citrus flavour. I am already using 80gms of amarillo (which I thought was heaps). If I wanted to increase the amarillo flavour of my brew, should I add the remaining 20grams of Amarillo (as I get 100gms packets of Amarillo) at the following stages:

1) Increase the hop additions by evenly spreading the remaining 20gms of amarillo according to the above hopping schedule, so I add 25gms at 15min (to finishing), 25gms at 5min (to finish) and 50gms at 1min (to finish). So a total of 100gms of amarillo are added.

or

2) Hop using the above schedual, but also include a hopp addition with the remaining 20gms of Amarillo at say 30min.

or

3) Hopp using the above schedule, but also include a dry hopp step with the remaining 20gms of Amarillo.



Thanks
J

 

[Stuster]

Amarillo doesn't exactly have a citrus taste to my tastes, or at least, not quite the same sort of citrus flavour as Cascade. If you want more hop flavour/aroma, drink it younger. You'll get more hop punch at two weeks. Also, that yeast will tend to accentuate malt flavour. Use US56 (now US05 ) to accentuate hops.

All of those possibilities will work. I'd try dry hopping it first off, but 1 has the advantage of not mucking about with dry hopping. Change the yeast first though. :chug:

 

[sah]

Hi Jason,

I'd vote for the dry hopping. You could also include a first wort hop addition.

I'm sure that if you added some gypsum to the mash you'd notice a crisper hop flavour too.

I agree with Stuster too. The hop flavour in these pale ales melds or smooths pretty quickly. This is often a good thing though.

regards
Scott

 

[sah]

Jason,

I meant to add that I wouldn't use as much munich and crystal. Perhaps only 5% munich and 1 or 2 percent crystal. I'm by no means very experienced with recipe design though.

I'd expect the munich would give you a very noticeable maltiness which may compete with the hop flavour. I think that much crystal would make it quite sweet.

I'm happy to be contradicted here though.

regards
Scott

 

[AUHEAMIC]

Try adding 40 grams at 20mins in stead of 20 @ 15 and 20 @ 5. I do this and the hop flavour seems to last quite well in the bottle.

 

[big d]

Next time try adding the 40 grams of amarillo at flame out and let it settle for 10 odd minutes before you chill your wort.You maybe surprised by the difference in aroma and flavour.

Cheers
Big D

 

[jason]

Thanks for the advice people. I think I will go with the following:

1) Use US56 instead of SafealeSo4.

2) Use the following hop schedule:
17.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00%] (60 min)
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (15 min) Hops
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (5 min) Hops
50.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (0 min flameout) Hops

Is using 100gms of flavour/aroma Amarillo hops normal? Do other people that use amarillo as flavour/aroma hops also use this amount or more? I always thought that 100gms was too much. But after my last brew using a total of 80gms of amarillo, I definitely needed more of it.

The good thing now at least is that I wont have to store any hops in my freezer, where they become old between brews. The place where I buy my hops sell hops in 100gms packets. I can now always use fresh hops from the shops, instead of left-over hops from a previous brew that has been in my fridge for ages.

 

[Stuster]

Too many hops are never enough. Just ask cj and his hopmonster from this thread. But that kind of insanity is only for those who have fully killed off their taste buds already.

For others, 80g would be too much. (looking at you PP). But the beauty of homebrewing is that you are brewing for your taste buds. You are just increasing the hops by 20g, so I'd say it's unlikely to be too bitter for you to drink. FWIW, my last APA used 30g for FWH, 10g at 60, 90g from 15 onwards and 30g dry. I think it's just about right for an easy drinker. :chug:

 

[DJR]

Too many hops are never enough. Just ask cj and his hopmonster from this thread. But that kind of insanity is only for those who have fully killed off their taste buds already.

For others, 80g would be too much. (looking at you PP). But the beauty of homebrewing is that you are brewing for your taste buds. You are just increasing the hops by 20g, so I'd say it's unlikely to be too bitter for you to drink. FWIW, my last APA used 30g for FWH, 10g at 60, 90g from 15 onwards and 30g dry. I think it's just about right for an easy drinker. :chug:

Geez Stu and here i was with an All-Simcoe APA that people regard as a bit piney/resiny/hoppy with only 40g - 10g at 60', 30', 15' and 1' !!! Was still pretty piney, but i guess that's simcoe for you!

The most important thing is balance. IMHO a rule of thumb in APA's is to set the munich&crystal percentage in your grain bill to 15% for every time you add 50g of flavour/aroma hops. That is, if you are making a beer with 100g of flavour and aroma hops, use at least 30% munich&crystal. When i say munich & crystal, these should be about 30% crystal (or caramunich) to 70% munich (or vienna, carahell or caramalt) in the mix but it's up to you. Of couse, everyone has there own taste buds

 

[Stuster]

Very true, DJR. That APA had 20% Vienna and about 5% Crystal. It was a Cascade, Amarillo, Hersbrucker mix, so not quite as intense as Simcoe I guess.