Hop Schedule For A Ris

[Dazza_devil]

G'day Brewers,
I'm going to use up my hop pellet leftovers in a RIS

Here's my recipe,

27 litres

4kg LDME
1kg dextrose

300g Carafa III
240g Pale Chocolate
200g Carabohemian
100g Roasted barley

I'll be using around a 3 -4 litre starter of 1084 fermenting at 22 degrees C.


My hop leftovers are,

45g Galaxy 15%AA
20g Magnum 14%AA
25g D Saaz 5.4%AA
30g Styrian Golding 4.8%AA

The Saaz and Styrians are getting on a bit, around 12 months in the fridge but the rest are reasonably fresh.
I've played around with some different combinations but haven't really came up with anything I'm happy with yet.
Any recommendations or other critisicms are welcome. Anything between 70 to 90 IBU's would suit me fine.
I'm beastly careless whether I dry-hop or not. The brew will be aged for a while so probably pointless doing so, not sure.

Cheers,
Boagsy

 

[drsmurto]

Single bittering addition is all that is needed so use the high AA% hops

 

[Effect]

Well, I wouldn't be using anything but a 60 or 90 minute addition.

Go magnum and stryian and or galaxy.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Interesting.
I was of the impression that this particular style of stout was meant to have some hop flavour and aroma along with a big roasted malt character.
Jamil and Palmer from 'Brewing Classic Styles' have 10min and 1 min additions in their Czar's Revenge recipe and another recipe with 15 min, 3 min and dry-hop additions. They suggest no maximums with this style, only minimums.
The style guidelines suggest that hop aroma can be low to quite aggressive and may contain any variety. Variable amounts of hop flavour and bitterness suggest that the style can be quite broad in it's interpretations. Reading the style guidelines, it sound absolutely delicious, my kind of stout.

 

[drsmurto]

If you drink it fresh then late additions are fine but a RIS is generally a beer that is aged so why would you waste hops that will fade over time anyway?

Not to mention it will be very hard to find the hops under all the roast unless you add a metric shedload.

BJCP guidelines are just that - guidelines, not legal requirements. So decide what you want from the beer and act accordingly.

Have a good read of the RIS thread - Link

 

[Dazza_devil]

Yeah I did have a read of that thread a while back.

I'll just dry-hop it with 45g Galaxy then.

 

[drsmurto]

Didn't bother to run the numbers through beersmith but having another look at that grist its a bit light on for a RIS.

For 27L i get an OG of 1.070 with an EBC of only 70.

Given the small amount of roasted barley and other roasted malts I think what you have is more like an imperial brown porter than a stout.

My dry stouts contain more roasted malts and are darker than this.

That said, i have no doubt it will produce a nice beer but if you want something to put down for a year or 2 then i would be dropping the volume right back to get a BIG beer, not the slightly overweight beer you currently have.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Didn't bother to run the numbers through beersmith but having another look at that grist its a bit light on for a RIS.

For 27L i get an OG of 1.070 with an EBC of only 70.

Given the small amount of roasted barley and other roasted malts I think what you have is more like an imperial brown porter than a stout.

My dry stouts contain more roasted malts and are darker than this.

That said, i have no doubt it will produce a nice beer but if you want something to put down for a year or 2 then i would be dropping the volume right back to get a BIG beer, not the slightly overweight beer you currently have.

Thanks Doc,
I get 1.075 in IanH's spreadsheet, did you allow for the 1kg of dex?
I was originally thinking of using 5kg of LDME but dropped it back in fear of under-attenuation problems with 1084, perhaps I'll wack another 500g or so back into her.
I get around 80EBC's from IanH's spreadsheet but I do have another 200g of Carafa III and some more Roast Barley at hand if needed. I didn't want to have an overpowering Roast Barley amount though, in goes the whole 500g of Carafa III and another 100g of Roasted Barley which puts my OG up to 1.077 without the extra 500g LDME.
I doubt I will have the patience to put this down for two years. I reckon that half the batch might make it to 12 months if it's lucky and I'll be sampling along the way, exponentially after 6 months or so.

 

[drsmurto]

Used beersmith for the calcs and yes, included everything.

I use 250g of roast in 20L of dry stout so if it was me i would be using min 500g plus the extra roasted malts.

If you prefer carafa to roast then go for it, you'll make a very nice Imperial Porter and it's something i have been wanting to do for a while now, go nuts with carafa and a kg in a single batch.

I don't think you will have attenuation problems with that much dex as well as WY1084 which is quite a hungry yeast.

 

[reviled]

Agree with smurto re dropping volume, adding more roast, and I personally wouldnt go adding sugar or dex into a RIS

All the best RIS' ive tried have all been between sorta 1020 and 1030, syrupy with minimal carb and normally higher than 9%, and they keep for soooooo long, like years and years!! I know you say you wont have the patience to keep it for so long but its not exactly a session beer, so youd be surprised how long the bottles can last, especially if you have kegs of other stuff to drink!!

 

[Effect]

I think you need more than normal amounts of roasted malts in a RIS than in a normal stout, the fg plays a big role in balancing them out...not enough roasted malts and you could have something just a bit too sweet. The group brew day RIS us adelaide boys did was quite high up there in terms of roasted malts - but it doesn't taste that much roastier than a normal stout.

Cheers
Phil

 

[drsmurto]

I think you need more than normal amounts of roasted malts in a RIS than in a normal stout, the fg plays a big role in balancing them out...not enough roasted malts and you could have something just a bit too sweet. The group brew day RIS us adelaide boys did was quite high up there in terms of roasted malts - but it doesn't taste that much roastier than a normal stout.

Cheers
Phil

I used 1.2kg of roasted barley in 25L as well as brown, choc and amber! Agree, its not over the top roasty at all.

 

[reviled]

Dont be scared of the roast

I cant talk tho, I allways pussy out with the roasted malts and my blacks turn out brown and my browns amber

 

[Dazza_devil]

Just weighed it up and I have 360g of Roasted Barley there so in goes the lot. Also found 200g of Chocolate Wheat, toss that in too?
Back to 5kgs of LDME and OG now 1.093. I included the dex because of Jamil and Palmer's recommendation to ensure attenuation was enough to avoid an overly sweet, syrupy beer.
I found 170g Black Malt in the cupboard but it's a bit over 15 months old, stored well but perhaps a bit iffy?

 

[jbirbeck]

Just weighed it up and I have 360g of Roasted Barley there so in goes the lot. Also found 200g of Chocolate Wheat, toss that in too?
Back to 5kgs of LDME and OG now 1.093. I included the dex because of Jamil and Palmer's recommendation to ensure attenuation was enough to avoid an overly sweet, syrupy beer.
I found 170g Black Malt in the cupboard but it's a bit over 15 months old, stored well but perhaps a bit iffy?

15 mths is nothing, chuck it in as well and go super roasty.

 

[beerbrewer76543]

Just weighed it up and I have 360g of Roasted Barley there so in goes the lot. Also found 200g of Chocolate Wheat, toss that in too?
Back to 5kgs of LDME and OG now 1.093. I included the dex because of Jamil and Palmer's recommendation to ensure attenuation was enough to avoid an overly sweet, syrupy beer.
I found 170g Black Malt in the cupboard but it's a bit over 15 months old, stored well but perhaps a bit iffy?

LDME has a habit of finishing high so I always add 500g of sugar to my partials to avoid this

 

[Dazza_devil]

Jamil nad Palmer recommend no more than 20% of simple sugars for dex amounts so 1kg with 5kg LDME should be fine I reckon. I've used less and more with varied results.
The reason I didn't want to overdo the Roasted Barley was so I could experience some of the smoothness from the Carafa III with it's lack of husks.

Edit - I realise that there is a fairly big scope for variatiion with this particular style but I'm beginning to think I've picked the wrong style to showcase the Carafa III.