Homebrew Laws

[domonsura]

I was going through the liquor act history and amendments when I read it, I'll find it again when I get some time to spare. (Yes, i am a sad person who will actually read legislature from cover to cover if I have to....)

 

[PostModern]

People must have missed it from my earlier post (added it as an edit):

Excise Tariff Act 1921 says, "Items 1 to 3 of this Schedule do not include any liquor that has been produced for non-commercial purposes, using non-commercial facilities and equipment, other than a liquor that is, or that contains, any spirit obtained by distillation."

That's the bit that makes homebrew legal, and there's no mention of volume limits.

Excellent. This would indicate that my Xmas case Eisbock will actually be legal!

I was going through the liquor act history and amendments when I read it, I'll find it again when I get some time to spare. (Yes, i am a sad person who will actually read legislature from cover to cover if I have to....)

What, you don't have Ctrl^F?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

( and that is directly from the ATO's excise collection department 'mouth' (I had a visit from them the other week )

So how come you got a visit from them..??

 

[Adamt]

Excellent. This would indicate that my Xmas case Eisbock will actually be legal!

Freeze distillation is still distillation!

 

[MartinS]

The various Liquor Acts are state legislation, which relate to the sale of liquor (at least in the cases of NSW and SA). Production of excisable goods is a federal issue, and is covered by the combination of the Excise Act and the Excise Tariff Act.

While you're right that the Excise Tariff Act is mainly about how much the ATO gets, the Excise Act is the thing that actually makes it illegal to produce excisable goods without a license. Homebrew is legal by omission, rather than explicit legalisation: since the Excise Tariff Act excludes it from excise, which stops the Excise Act from applying to it.

Yes, i am a sad person who will actually read legislature from cover to cover if I have to...

It's not that sad .

 

[MartinS]

Freeze distillation is still distillation!

I'm not so sure about that. The law doesn't define the term "distillation", but most definitions treat freeze distillation as something else.

 

[stillscottish]

I was leafing through an old home brew book from about 1970 in a Lifeline store last month (wish I'd bought it now).
The recipes were specifically for the low alcohol content allowed at that time. I don't remember seeing anything else in it about legislation.

Kawana Waters if anyone wants to go look for it.

Campbell

 

[PostModern]

Freeze distillation is still distillation!

3.2.8 Whisky
Whisky means a spirit obtained by the distillation of a fermented liquor of a mash of cereal grain in such a manner that the spirit possesses the taste, aroma and other characteristics generally attributed to whisky

There is nothing which ascribes a general definition as "spirit". All of the other specified spirits refer to stuff of or over 17% alcohol by volume. I think I'm covered. They mention brandy from grapes, Rum by sugar cane products... the only mashed stuff is whisky so at 12-17%, Eisbock is not whisky, therefore is not a spirit, therefore is not subject to excise, so I'm cool.

In the same way that you can own a still, you can own a freezer, so long as you don't use it to make spirit. That's my completely random and unbiased *cough* interpretation and I'm sticking to it

EDIT:
And the definition of beer:

3.2.1 Beer

Beer means a brewed beverage which:

(a) is the product of the yeast fermentation of an aqueous extract of malted or unmalted cereals, whether or not containing other sources of carbohydrates

(b ) contains hops, or extracts thereof, or other bitters

(c ) has not had added to it, at any time, any alcohol from any other source, and

(d) contains more than 1.15 per cent by volume of alcohol.

I will not add alcohol to it, but only remove water. Still a beer!

 

[Adamt]

Sounds dynamite!

I thought I remember hearing about some legislation regarding 'the concentration of alcohol' which covers both eis'ing and traditional distilling.

Not that it matters at all... ever heard of anyone having their house raided looking for frozen fermenters? Even think it will happen? Not a chance at all.

 

[0M39A]

There is nothing which ascribes a general definition as "spirit". All of the other specified spirits refer to stuff of or over 17% alcohol by volume. I think I'm covered. They mention brandy from grapes, Rum by sugar cane products... the only mashed stuff is whisky so at 12-17%, Eisbock is not whisky, therefore is not a spirit, therefore is not subject to excise, so I'm cool.

In the same way that you can own a still, you can own a freezer, so long as you don't use it to make spirit. That's my completely random and unbiased *cough* interpretation and I'm sticking to it

EDIT:
And the definition of beer:


I will not add alcohol to it, but only remove water. Still a beer!

So what about turbo yeats that can ferment up to 22% alcohol?

a lot of homebrew shops sell all the gear for setting yourself up with carbon filters etc to make the stuff as neutral as possible, but without distilling. being over 17% wouldnt they classify it as a spirit?

*note i havent read any links, just going on the summarys you have posted

 

[PostModern]

So what about turbo yeats that can ferment up to 22% alcohol?

a lot of homebrew shops sell all the gear for setting yourself up with carbon filters etc to make the stuff as neutral as possible, but without distilling. being over 17% wouldnt they classify it as a spirit?

*note i havent read any links, just going on the summarys you have posted

From the (brief and selective) reading I have done, they're OK (IANAL) as they're not distilled to get to that strength. The laws are phrased in terms of the production methods in place when they were written and are about taxation of commercial products. It's a good point tho, because it means although my Eisbock is not taxable, it might still be dodgy due to the concentration of alcohol. However, I think a slap on the wrist is the worst that would come of it in real life. If you tried to sell it, tho, there's another whole kettle of fish. In fact, I wonder about the legality, in the strictest sense, of the case swaps in general? ie, as we're exchanging beer for a consideration (other beer), it's not exactly "personal consumption". Yet another example of how the law lags behind the times. we might need to test a case in court or something!

 

[drtomc]

Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.

T.

 

[MartinS]

Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.

You need at least three things to sell your beer:
1. A DA with your local council. You can't normally do either of the other steps unless your local council is happy with you brewing commercially.

2. A Producers Licence from your state government (or whatever Victoria's equivalent licence is). They mainly care that you are a generally trustworthy person, and can act responsibly in the community (including only selling to people your license covers you for)

3. An Excise Licence from the ATO. They want to be sure that you can keep records, and will pay your weekly excise.

You pay your excise weekly, not quarterly. The licenses and approvals are a bit of a bitch, from what I hear. It's meant to be better down your way than up here, but you're unlikely to see much change out of a few tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.

T.

This has been covered many many many times..

You need, in the following order

Local gov approval for a brewery. This covers the building side of things

State gov liquor license to run a brewery.

ATO registration for your brewery to be able to sell your beer and make sure your are paying the correct excise.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

From the (brief and selective) reading I have done, they're OK (IANAL) as they're not distilled to get to that strength. The laws are phrased in terms of the production methods in place when they were written and are about taxation of commercial products. It's a good point tho, because it means although my Eisbock is not taxable, it might still be dodgy due to the concentration of alcohol. However, I think a slap on the wrist is the worst that would come of it in real life. If you tried to sell it, tho, there's another whole kettle of fish. In fact, I wonder about the legality, in the strictest sense, of the case swaps in general? ie, as we're exchanging beer for a consideration (other beer), it's not exactly "personal consumption". Yet another example of how the law lags behind the times. we might need to test a case in court or something!

Maybe if you didnt tell anyone your where making anything on the fringe of the law, then no-one would hassle you for it.. :icon_cheers:

 

[Mercs Own]

Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.

T.

You need a brewing licence - but to get that you need a brewery that meets guidelines including tax determination (calibrated) tanks, enviromental guidelines, waste management so on and so forth etc And they wont give you the brewery licence until they have seen the brewery. You need a pre retail licence so as to sell to retail outlets (that is not a hard one to get just a police check)and then you would need a general liquor licence but for that I think you need an outlet??? such as a cafe, resturant or a pub - meaning a capital investment not dissimilar to setting up the brewery.

In very general terms that kinda covers it. As for selling what you brew at home - there is no chance legally.

I thought the U Brew/brew on premises attracted a 3% excise on the beer brewed on premise?

I was typing this while Martins and Ducati stu posted?! :blink:

 

[drtomc]

Maybe if you didnt tell anyone your where making anything on the fringe of the law, then no-one would hassle you for it.. :icon_cheers:

Well, indeed! But if it was simple and cheap to do it then I'd be very happy to go down that route. Sounds like it is both non-cheap and non-easy. I guess I'll stick to giving it away for birthday presents.

T.

 

[Mercs Own]

Or you can do what I and others are doing/have done - contract brew. Go to AIB/Mildura Theatre Brewery/Brew Boys or one of the other breweries doing it etc Take your recipe (and hope they make it the according to the years of hard work developing the recipe and to your wishes etc)

End product $32 - $35 per case inclusive of packaging and excise and 1000 cases of beer to sell. You need to pay transport to get it to where you will store it and then hope you can sell it all while it is at it's best. On top of storage costs if you are serious about selling it then you need a good distributor (an oxymoron perhaps???) who will charge you anywhere between $9 - $13 per case for the privilage of taking it around to there mates bottlos and hopefully getting the patrons interest via free beer tastings (got to lose some to gain some) and floggin it off to them.

In short it is neither simple, cheap nor a very profitable adventure. It is great to live the dream and one day I hope to make a success out of it but it is good to be aware of the truth of it.

Better just brew at home, impress you mates and their wives and enjoy. mmmm maybe I should listen to my own advice....damn dreams!

 

[drtomc]

In short it is neither simple, cheap nor a very profitable adventure. It is great to live the dream and one day I hope to make a success out of it but it is good to be aware of the truth of it.

I was thinking quite differently - I had in mind merely to do occasional brews for friends/friends of friends, in a completely legal and above board way. Like I said, better to stick to birthday presents.

T.

 

[HoppingMad]

Is certainly no easy task to set up a smaller scale brewery. Take the examples of two Microbreweries here in Vic:

Mountain Goat - Went from a small operation in a rented garage off a house in South Yarra/Prahran, got a permit eventually but it took months and some fierce negotiation with neighbours, then wound up having to find bigger premises when their volumes got too high. Wound up sharing equipment at Grand Ridge (all the way out in Mirboo Nth which is on the way to Mt Baw Baw) when they were getting started. So some serious travel time between batches. Finally now have a schmick brewery in Richmond but has been a long haul.

RedHill Brewery - Struggled to get brewery up and running due to agricultural zoning of their rural property (more a council issue than a liquor licence issue I think). Grew Hops for several years to make use of the land then finally got their brewery through all the bureaucratic channels. The fact they were growing an item used in brewing helped their cause.

In otherwords, if you're going to do it, be prepared to get in the trenches and fight hard for it! :icon_cheers:

Hopper.