Home Made Conical Fermenter

[kegpig]

instead of silicone get it plastic welded ,everything is plastic these days and there are alot of people repairing bumper bars etc and cheap

 

[Georgedgerton]

Doog, hate to sound negative but the silicone thing is bound to be a problem. Some time back I experimented with a SS fermenter that had a few silicone joints and couldn't stop infection problems. Also know others who have had similar experiences.

 

[Cocko]

Plastic weld is the ONLY option...

 

[schooey]

I don't think so, unless they have made some quantum leap in technology with it. When welding, the filler rod that is used to fuse the two plastics together leaves a nice little crevice (above and underneath) for bugs to live in.... Not trying to be the devil's advocate, just trying to save someone the hassle.

I like your thinking on the try before you buy, doog, and if you had them there doing nothing it's not like it's a big cost to see if you really want to spend the money on a good quality SS conical

 

[Cocko]

Cant you buy a pre-made plastic conical?!?


I have searched to no avail but am sure they are out there!!

 

[roger mellie]

Cant you buy a pre-made plastic conical?!?


I have searched to no avail but am sure they are out there!!

I think Asher uses one of these

http://www.rotamoulding.com.au/Cone_Tanks.htm

RM

 

[Justin]

I feel like I just keep poohahing all these suggestions, not my intent honestly. But the plastic conicals linked to above (http://www.rotamoulding.com.au/Cone_Tanks.htm) look like a pretty shallow cone. If I recall the figures correctly the ideal angle of the cone needs to be around 60 degrees to get the desired effect.

Before I placed an order for the ones linked above I'd try to get the dimentions so you can work out the cone angle. I'm really not too sure of how essential it is but it makes sense to me as you want and need the yeast to accumulate in the bottom of the cone. Not enough angle and they'll sit on the sides of the cone.

These are the commecial made ones, not sure if available in Aus.
http://www.minibrew.com/index.php?main_pag...dex&cPath=5

 

[gava]

noobie here.. whats the advantages of a conical fermenter?

 

[Supra-Jim]

Yeast haversting is one of the main advantages. Allows you to drop trub/yeast out of the bottom valve without dropping any sweet sweet beer. Generally they have a rotating racking arm to allow you to rack out your beer without disturbing the sediment/trub.

Oh and most importantly the stainless ones look REALLY cool!!! B)

Cheers SJ

 

[praxis178]

Ok so I'm thinking of heading down this road just with a detour down SS alley first....

2x19L Big W stock pots ($27ea last time I looked)
1x300mm SS funnel (eBay) ($52delivered)
2x pipe nipples (size yet to be determined)
2x three piece ball valves (have some 1" bore ones, and one 3/4"bore, probably a bit big for this though)

A shit load of DIY TIG welding

Misc bolts and nuts, plus some 1" square tube for the legs.

The above would get you an ~50L conical for ~$150 and a weekend's worth of work.

So the question is: is the 304SS of the pots ok at 0.5mm 0.25mm thickness or am I asking for trouble when welding (mostly done 0.9-3mm stuff), and will it be strong enough to support it's own weight via a three leg config?

And are 1" through bore ball valves too big? The pipe nipples would end up being 2"NPT ones, gut feel is it's too big, and the yeast cake is likely to tunnel when you go to dump the lees.

Otherwise I'll hunt up some 1/2bsp ones (maybe a 3/4" for the lees dump valve).....

Right back to my sketching.

Edit: corrected measurements and such.

 

[praxis178]

Ok so I'm thinking of heading down this road just with a detour down SS alley first....

2x19L Big W stock pots ($27ea last time I looked)
1x300mm SS funnel (eBay) ($52delivered)
2x pipe nipples (size yet to be determined)
2x three piece ball valves (have some 1" bore ones, and one 3/4"bore, probably a bit big for this though)

A shit load of DIY TIG welding

Misc bolts and nuts, plus some 1" square tube for the legs.

The above would get you an ~50L conical for ~$150 and a weekend's worth of work.

So the question is: is the 304SS of the pots ok at 0.5mm 0.25mm thickness or am I asking for trouble when welding (mostly done 0.9-3mm stuff), and will it be strong enough to support it's own weight via a three leg config?

And are 1" through bore ball valves too big? The pipe nipples would end up being 2"NPT ones, gut feel is it's too big, and the yeast cake is likely to tunnel when you go to dump the lees.

Otherwise I'll hunt up some 1/2bsp ones (maybe a 3/4" for the lees dump valve).....

Right back to my sketching.

Edit: corrected measurements and such.

Update.....

Pots x2: $19.50ea <check>
3/4" ball valve ($1.5/kg scrap price 8 years ago) <check>
6xM6x40mm bolts plus wing nuts $14.70 <check>
1/2" ball valve $31.90 <in the mail>
300mm funnel $53.00 <in the mail>
SS Toe nipples $13.90 (1 1/4"), $8.40 (1/2") <in the mail>
20mm SQ SS tube (price tbd) <on back order>

Guess next weekend I get to do some sparkly stuff!

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

So the question is: is the 304SS of the pots ok at 0.5mm 0.25mm thickness or am I asking for trouble when welding (mostly done 0.9-3mm stuff), and will it be strong enough to support it's own weight via a three leg config?

Unless you are an above average welder you may have issues welding something that thin. I have muddled around a fair bit when I built my brewery and found welding the thin gear can create havic. Practice, practice, practice.......

BYB

 

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

instead of silicone get it plastic welded ,everything is plastic these days and there are alot of people repairing bumper bars etc and cheap

Plastic weld is the ONLY option...

I think plastic welding is a brilliant idea, just get the same or compatible filler rod as the materials u are welding/soldering. The funnel might be PVC, but the fermenter is something else. tell ur plastic fabrication supplier what u r doing, they should help u out!

I don't think so, unless they have made some quantum leap in technology with it. When welding, the filler rod that is used to fuse the two plastics together leaves a nice little crevice (above and underneath) for bugs to live in.... Not trying to be the devil's advocate, just trying to save someone the hassle.

I like your thinking on the try before you buy, doog, and if you had them there doing nothing it's not like it's a big cost to see if you really want to spend the money on a good quality SS conical

I disagree with this, the plastic welding (PET, NYLON, HDPE & TEFLON) i have done doesnt leave the little undercut or crevace (unless its bloody microscopic) but leaves a nice little radius at the bottom of the seam. If u do come across an undercut or a crevace, turn down ur temperature. I have welded plastic components for the food industry, and none have been rejected or failed during quality control.

Ok so I'm thinking of heading down this road just with a detour down SS alley first....

2x19L Big W stock pots ($27ea last time I looked)
1x300mm SS funnel (eBay) ($52delivered)
2x pipe nipples (size yet to be determined)
2x three piece ball valves (have some 1" bore ones, and one 3/4"bore, probably a bit big for this though)

A shit load of DIY TIG welding

Misc bolts and nuts, plus some 1" square tube for the legs.

The above would get you an ~50L conical for ~$150 and a weekend's worth of work.

So the question is: is the 304SS of the pots ok at 0.5mm 0.25mm thickness or am I asking for trouble when welding (mostly done 0.9-3mm stuff), and will it be strong enough to support it's own weight via a three leg config?

And are 1" through bore ball valves too big? The pipe nipples would end up being 2"NPT ones, gut feel is it's too big, and the yeast cake is likely to tunnel when you go to dump the lees.

Otherwise I'll hunt up some 1/2bsp ones (maybe a 3/4" for the lees dump valve).....

Right back to my sketching.

Edit: corrected measurements and such.

Unless you are an above average welder you may have issues welding something that thin. I have muddled around a fair bit when I built my brewery and found welding the thin gear can create havic. Practice, practice, practice.......

BYB

All i can say is weld fast and at low enough amps. IF the pots are cheap enough for u, maybe get a third one and do a heap of practise runs. get ur settings right, so u dont have heaps of blow throughs and stuff ur chance at a good conical.

When u have a bbq with ur mates and show off ur brewery, u can say "yep, this took me a couple of hours to knock 2gether"...... h34r:

I have welded my vessels with a mig, ss wire of coarse! keep an eye out on the forum for my herms setup when i post it up!

EDIT: SPELLING, AND FORGOT TO PUT STUFF IN!

 

[praxis178]

Unless you are an above average welder you may have issues welding something that thin. I have muddled around a fair bit when I built my brewery and found welding the thin gear can create havic. Practice, practice, practice.......

BYB

Yeah that is one of my main concerns, on the plus side just about all joins are lap style with the weld on the inside (so it can be ground down smooth).

The ones that I feel will be most problematic are the thin wall to pipe nipple welds, getting enough heat into the nipples without slagging the rest of the fermenter will be fun..... :blink:

 

[praxis178]

I think plastic welding is a brilliant idea, just get the same or compatible filler rod as the materials u are welding/soldering. The funnel might be PVC, but the fermenter is something else. tell ur plastic fabrication supplier what u r doing, they should help u out!




I disagree with this, the plastic welding (PET, NYLON, HDPE & TEFLON) i have done doesnt leave the little undercut or crevace (unless its bloody microscopic) but leaves a nice little radius at the bottom of the seam. If u do come across an undercut or a crevace, turn down ur temperature. I have welded plastic components for the food industry, and none have been rejected or failed during quality control.




All i can say is weld fast and at low enough amps. IF the pots are cheap enough for u, maybe get a third one and do a heap of practise runs. get ur settings right, so u dont have heaps of blow throughs and stuff ur chance at a good conical.

When u have a bbq with ur mates and show off ur brewery, u can say "yep, this took me a couple of hours to knock 2gether"...... h34r:

I have welded my vessels with a mig, ss wire of coarse! keep an eye out on the forum for my herms setup when i post it up!

EDIT: SPELLING, AND FORGOT TO PUT STUFF IN!

Will be on the look out, I hope my TIG will go low enough, but the min is 10amps, so will probably just have to make do. The bottom of the pots (have four) will yield the leg mounting gussets and plenty of scrap to practice on so hopefully by next weekend (when I should have all the parts in the one space) I'll have the hang of TSW (TIGing Thin Shit). :unsure:

Right I'm off to cut up some pots!

 

[praxis178]

Will be on the look out, I hope my TIG will go low enough, but the min is 10amps, so will probably just have to make do. The bottom of the pots (have four) will yield the leg mounting gussets and plenty of scrap to practice on so hopefully by next weekend (when I should have all the parts in the one space) I'll have the hang of TSW (TIGing Thin Shit). :unsure:

Right I'm off to cut up some pots!

Pot 'A' now fits pot 'B', giving a cylinder of ~40L volume, so with the conical bottom that should give me a maximum capacity of 47L and a safe working capacity of ~40L which is about what I need to do double batches, so now for the hard bit: waiting for parts to arrive.....

 

[praxis178]

So after much f*+k arsing around welding the scraps from pot A, I've decided that while I can weld it with reasonable consistency it's right at the cusp of the finest that my TIG will do, even at minimum the amps are a tad high, so I've ordered a piece of stainless steel sheet which a mate of mine will roll into a cylinder for me. Down side to that is the new material is 1.2mm which was the thinest the supplier had in stock, I could have gone thinner if I had wanted to buy a whole sheet.....

And today my funnel arrived OD 303mm, height 218mm wall thickness <grrrr> 0.55mm <grrrr>, still better than the pots, so I guess we'll see how things pan out welding 0.5 to 1.2mm as a butt weld. The finished fermenter should still take the original Big W stock pot lid as it's lid.

 

[Malted]

So after much f*+k arsing around welding the scraps from pot A, I've decided that while I can weld it with reasonable consistency it's right at the cusp of the finest that my TIG will do, even at minimum the amps are a tad high, so I've ordered a piece of stainless steel sheet which a mate of mine will roll into a cylinder for me. Down side to that is the new material is 1.2mm which was the thinest the supplier had in stock, I could have gone thinner if I had wanted to buy a whole sheet.....

And today my funnel arrived OD 303mm, height 218mm wall thickness <grrrr> 0.55mm <grrrr>, still better than the pots, so I guess we'll see how things pan out welding 0.5 to 1.2mm as a butt weld. The finished fermenter should still take the original Big W stock pot lid as it's lid.

I for one would like to see progress photos!

 

[praxis178]

I for one would like to see progress photos!

Will see what I can do later today.....

 

[praxis178]

Progress shots....

Valves, the big one is 3/4" bore and will be the lees drain valve, the smaller is the same as the one that will be the racking valve, which should arrive in the morning.


Funnel on one of the pots (that now won't be used), you can see how seductively tempting it looks..... I get the sheet stock tomorrow arvo, and should have it rolled and ready to weld to the funnel by the weekend....

The bottomless pot to the left was going to be the top section of the tank's body, but is now just so much scrap. If anyone want to have a go at this project in it's original form I have a spare pot and you can have the bottomless one for nix (spare pot $19.90), and I'll give you the address on the funnel supplier, I reckon the required amps to TIG this thin shite would be in the 4-7 range so real low, probably wouldn't require filler rod either.

I'll take lots of photos as the project progresses this weekend (or not as the case maybe).