Guess That Flavour.....or Why Does My Current Brew Smell Like My Last

[Fireman Sam]

Hey Y'all.

Looking for those pearls of wisdom again guys...

Ok... so brew No.2 was a 23L Coopers Mexican Cerveca which was dry hopped with 20gm of Amarillo. I knew I had to wait till the bulk of the ferm was done, so I threw the pellets in around day 5 or so. However the ferm took longer than I thought and I was worried about the unusual taste / smell that developed, but plodded on hoping that would go (thinking it may be a green beer taste, as I am new to tasting under developed beers). It's not an acrid taste or an infection or anything like that - difficult to describe really, but just doesn't seem or taste right.

Anyway... No.2 was bottled and the primary container was cleaned immediately. I clean my stuff with very hot water and make sure no little cling-on's stick around etc, I don't use a scourer, just the hot water and paper towels to wipte the inside... but I couldn't get rid of the lingering smell, similar to the one described above.

Brew No.3 was kicked off in the same fermenter, this is a 23L Coopers Canadian Blonde with New Zealand Clover Honey. This was kicked off about a week or so ago, so I took a couple of SG readings over the weekend. Pours a nice head, looks great in colour, quite a bit of carbonation (I'm guessing from the sugar in the honey ?), but the same aftertaste is still there ?

Do you think that it has transferred somehow ???

I am really wanting this Blonde + Honey to come out good... (and not have to waste two brews!!)

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[manticle]

What were the other fermentables in each? Malt extract? Sugar? dextrose? A blend of the above?

Can you describe the taste and smell a little more? Were the tins in date?

What yeasts did you use for each?

What were the fermentation temperatures?

If it is to do with cleaning rather than fermentation then try using a sodium percarbonate product and very hot water - should deodorise. You'll then need to rinse really well until the plastic doesn't feel slimy (try and re-use the water for cleaning elsewhere or to water some plants when it's cool. You can then do a rinse with something acidic (acid no rinse sanitiser, white vinegar, citric acid solution) then rinse again.

 

[Fireman Sam]

Sorry Manticle... what was I thinking.... of course you need to know that.... :huh:

My brew notes are on my laptop at home, but pretty sure from memory that both were Kit's (in date as very recently purchased from G&G) + 1kg of 50/50 LDME & Dex (again recently purchased from G&G).

The yeasts I'm sure were both US-05's also fresh. Ferm temps were pretty much averaged around 18' for the whole time.

The taste is so strange I really wish I could describe it... slightly bitter, sharpish kind of taste. Almost makes the mouth pucker up ?! I don't know if all I've read up on 'grassy' tastes has made me think that this is what it is, but you could almost say that it does taste grassy. Which I can understand if the amarillo was in brew no.2 for too long, but not sure why it has carried across to no.3 ?

Thanks for your quick response and interest in my dilemma

 

[Ray43]

I've made a dozen brews now and I always sanitise everything but still end up with the aftersmell in my fermenter. Should I also use this sodium percarbonate as you suggested, and if so, where do I buy that from? My LHBS or supermarket of elsewhere?
Thanks for some help here.

 

[manticle]

Sodium percarbonate is the active ingredient in napisan and most oxygen bleaches. You can use these products as long as you rinse well as described above. Make sure you get an unscented one and try and make sure it's biodegradeable.

You can also buy oxyper from some homebrew shops (expensive though) or pure sodium percarb online (check google).

Fireman sam - check this link and see if any of htese decribe what you are tasting: http://www.homebrewzone.com/off-flavors.htm

 

[RobboMC]

How do you prime and bottle?

A bit of oxidation could be setting up a very light sherry flavour.
But just be more careful with everything you do.

 

[Ray43]

Manticle, thanks for the quick reply....I've just found some laundry soaker in the cupboard and it contains sodium percarbonate so will try that next time.
Cheers.

 

[barneyb]

For even easier (and less chemical) odour removal just leave your empty fermenter in the sun. The UV rays kill any lingering smells.

Personally I find anything I brew has this smell and taste that doesn't seem quite right. Never worked out what it is, however it always disappears after a few weeks of conditioning in the bottle.

 

[Fireman Sam]

Fireman sam - check this link and see if any of htese decribe what you are tasting: http://www.homebrewzone.com/off-flavors.htm

Thanks manticle... I'll try and take a sample tonight for SG reading and to see if I can narrow down the taste.

How do you prime and bottle?

A bit of oxidation could be setting up a very light sherry flavour.
But just be more careful with everything you do.

Robbomc... not sure if you are asking me this question... however I bulk prime using a second fermenter, then into Grolsch Swing tops using little bottler.

however it always disappears after a few weeks of conditioning in the bottle.

Thanks barneyb... I'll let it go for now and will see how it goes bottle conditioning, maybe even for a few months.

 

[Bongchitis]

You might be sensitive to green beer. I hate it, grassy (even with no additional hops), bitter etc. Not sure if its the same thing but when I was K+King the kit twang with green beer flavour made me almost chuck a few batches. As stated above, leave it a while. Amazing what 2 months can do for your beer.

All the best mate.

 

[Fireman Sam]

be sensitive to green beer. I hate it, grassy (even with no additional hops), bitter etc.

You may well be right Bongchitis (love that nick btw!)

To be honest I don't like overly bitter styles (sort of anything above 35 IBU), but perhaps I don't like the other end of the scale ! Oh well... all in the name of research !

Cheers bro

 

[Fireman Sam]

Well... just got home and took another SG. Dropped to 1012, wort at 20'.

The aroma is still there, maybe not as strong. But that lingering flavour is still there. As manticle suggested I read the homebrewzone suggestions for the taste definitions for off flavours... the only things I could narrow it down to would be astringency and / or bitterness. It's certainly toward the back of the tongue and has a leaning toward that puckered up mouth kind of effect.

Weird... the intensity of the flavour dies down after a few mouthfuls when I was tasting it ??

Thanks for your help again guys...

edit: Further testing notes

 

[manticle]

Astringency would be something I would associate with grain.

Best bet is to try and get someone to diagnose it for you. I'd offer but I don't think my expertise is good enough. I'd recommend dropping into grain and grape or one of the other shopos recommended by brewers here (greensborough homebrewing for example) or sending a bottle to one of the guys who've just finished/are finishing the BJCP course - fourstar, Maple, CityMorgueII etc.

Whereabouts in 'north west melb' are you?

 

[Fireman Sam]

Astringency would be something I would associate with grain.

Yeah thats what I thought mate...

I'm in Hillside - near Caroline Springs. I don't know whether to leave it on the trub to try and clear it, or bottle it and just see how it goes.

It'll be ready for bottling by Friday I reckon. If I don't bottle it by then (and thinking about it, chances are I won't have time), I might ask SWMBO to go into G&G on Friday cos she doesn't work then.... Thanks for your help manticle !

 

[manticle]

Yeah getting an experienced palate onto it should be your best bet. If you have no joy, I'm happy to try but I reckon there's better options and the guys at GG will more than likely be one of those.

 

[Gavo]

The aftertaste may be the fact that it is a kit beer and in reality kit beers do need time in the bottle to improve. I recently did a kit & bits for the first time in almost two years and tried it after a short time in the bottle and that taste seemed to be there, (I had almost forgotten what it was like) not really bitter not mouth puckering like astringency, just an aftertaste that is just not right.

Get it tasted as you say, and try leaving it longer in the bottle as they usually get better.

Gavo.

 

[Fireman Sam]

Thanks Gavo.... will do.

And I reckon it's time to step up to Extract brewing !

 

[ekul]

Fireman sam, i think i know the taste you are refering to. I couldn't actually describe it but it has been in every single kit brew that i have ever done. I recently put down an all extract brew and that taste wasn't there. So maybe give an all extract brew a go, its not that much more expensive and the beer tastes way better imo.

 

[Fireman Sam]

Thats what I'm thinkin ekul... the first brew I did was an artisan wort 17L mix from G&G, so obviously as it's made in bulk as opposed to a kit, the taste wasn't there, hence why I got so worried when it appeared in these two kits.

It's got me beat how people can taste a kit and say ....mmmmm nice flavour, aroma etc if that bloody stink is there !

Anyway, I'm off to G&G on Fri or Sat to get some extract ingredients !!

 

[ekul]

i reckon thats the go! Try neills 'centarillo'. Its pretty easy to make and is pretty tasty (and mine is green!). Its in the topic "everyone should make this". It was my first all extract brew and i don't think i'll ever go back to kits (except the coopers cervesa that i still have in the cupboard, but its nearly an unhopped can anyway!)

I'm going to put a little less hops next time as mine was a little bitter, but the bitterness might go away by the time its ready! Making another one today! Goodluck mate