Good Grain Crush + 92c Mashout = High Efficiency

[PostModern]

There you go , thanks Ross , you know what its like when the old scaremonger's get hold of a good story and beat it up a bit have everyone questioning what is right and wrong .

Pumpy

Not scaremongering, they were just taking these words:

2) combined with a Mash out of about 92C

with their normally accepted meaning, which is not how you used them. "Mashing out at 92C" means raising the temperature of the mash to 92C, not adding 92C water... see the distinction? It's kinda important for everyone to use the same language.

 

[Pumpy]

Not scaremongering, they were just taking these words:

With their normally accepted meaning, which is not how you used them. "Mashing out at 92C" means raising the temperature of the mash to 92C, not adding 92C water... see the distinction? It's kinda important for everyone to use the same language.

It does say on the Beersmith printout

'Mashout: Add 9.90 L of water at 92C'

was I wrong to call it a '92C Mashout' ?

I have always thought the 'Mash out' was a single addition of water to cease the enzyme activity and the temperature referred to the temperature of the water being added not the temperature of the mash .

But then again for years I thought the Kettle was for boiling the water and the Hot Liquor tank was for boiling the wort !


Pumpy h34r:

 

[PostModern]

It does say on the Beersmith printout

'Mashout: Add 9.90 L of water at 92C'

was I wrong to call it a '92C Mashout' ?

I have always thought the 'Mash out' was a single addition of water to cease the enzyme activity and the temperature referred to the temperature of the water being added not the temperature of the mash .

I always thought mashout temp referred to the temperature of the mash, but you put a seed of doubt in my mind. Palmer says:

Mashout is the term for raising the temperature of the mash [to x degrees.]

(my emphasis).

Never mind, sounds like you've found a good thing. I generally sparge with water in the high 80's but I fly sparge with my lightly cracked floating mash. I would quote my efficiency with this method, but Beersmith doesn't seem to have a buckets of malt to OG conversion.

 

[Darren]

Brings me to yor original post Pumpy. What were you doing before you decided to add 92 C water to the mash.

Yes, its your new mill, not the temp of the water of the sparge water.

cheers

Darren

 

[dr K]

I brew outside
It gets cold here in winter
If I add 10kg of cracked grain (say at 10C) to 25 litres of mashing liquor at 80C, this means I am mashing at 80C..gee learn something new every day..someone knows it makes sense.

K

 

[Benniee]

'Mashout: Add 9.90 L of water at 92C'

I was thinking you were getting the temp of the grain bed up to 92C, like the others that were warning you of the potential risks. Sorry - didn't mean to do any "scaremongering" but just relaying experiences of mine when the grain bed temp creeps up too high.

Benniee

 

[Fourstar]

Taken from one of my recipe's in beersmith :


Mash In - Add 14.00 L of water at 71.4 C. Step Temp - 65.0 C 60 min
Mash Out - Add 10.00 L of water at 96.3 C. Step Temp - 75.6 C 10 min

I can see how pumpy got confused.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thanks for the reply and clarification Pumpy - I suspected that it was a possible crossover of language rather than a hugely different technique. Thats why I asked

TB

 

[technocat]

I find that Beersmith temps are usually 3-4C below my achievable temps so I usually have to go higher. Not sure whether there is an adjustment in the program to compensate. I mash out at 70C for 20 minutes regardless of what my mash in temp was. My extraction % is in the low seventies consistent after getting out of the sixties in the early days but feel I need to do better. I batch sparge at 78C over 40 minutes. <_<

 

[mash head]

So many different sources of input with different deffinitions and different units of measure. No wonder I get confused too early for a beer to stop brain whinging though. It sounds like brewing was the winner here.
Cheers Greg

 

[Adamt]

Just a little hint, this thread is a few months old.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I allways use boiling water to sparge , as I notice it helps rinse the sugars and increase eff%. Crush also has a big effect to. I t did a batch one day after the kids had been fiddling with the mill and got a corse crush with nearly no flour, and eff% when crap.

 

[samhighley]

I allways use boiling water to sparge

Mmmm, tannins.

 

[tourist]

Mmmm, tannins.

From experience?

 

[samhighley]

From experience?

From the bible, How To Brew, on sparging:

The analogy to a tea bag is a good one in that if the grain is left in for too long (hours), astringent tannin compounds (a.k.a. phenols) can be extracted from the grain husks. The compounds give the wort a dry puckering taste, much like a black tea that has been left to steep too long. The extraction of tannins is especially prevalent if the water is too hot - above 170F. Previous practices regarding the use of specialty grains had the brewer putting the grain in the pot and bringing it to a boil before removal. That method often resulted in tannin extraction.

 

[samhighley]

Temperature

 

[Fourstar]

I allways use boiling water to sparge , as I notice it helps rinse the sugars and increase eff%. Crush also has a big effect to. I t did a batch one day after the kids had been fiddling with the mill and got a corse crush with nearly no flour, and eff% when crap.

Hey Ducatiboy, have a listen to the Efficiency podcast done by basicbrewing " March 19, 2009 - Mash and Lauter Efficiency". John Palmer has some good discussions on his theroies for efficiency.

Crush - Effects the speed of enzyme conversion.
Mah Temp - Hotter the better for enzyme activity, the lower the temp, the longer the mash time.
Lauter Tun - Shallower allows for a more even enzyme activity and temperature distribution.
Mashout Temp - Hotter the better to liquify the mash
Manifold - This is the key, Depending on your sparging type, batch, fly, no sparge. Will greatly effect the Runoff Efficincy

obviously if you follow the same procedure every time you do a mash, if onevariable is out (e.g. Crush) and you mash time is not adjusted for it, your efficiency will cosequently be down. Its a really good podcast, opened my eyes to afew of the myths out there. I'd suggest it to anyone wanting to under stand how efficincy may be improved, not necessisarily to improve your own efficncy as it may not always be possible with your choice of setup.

Cheers! :beerbang:

 

[Fourstar]

Mmmm, tannins.

Samy,

I think you are wrong there. Ducati is implying he fills is lauter tun with boiling water to bring the tun UP to mashout temperature (74-77 deg)

Not to bring the whole mash up to a mashout temperature of 100deg C.

 

[tourist]

From the bible, How To Brew, on sparging:

A simple "no" would be fine.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Samy,

I think you are wrong there. Ducati is implying he fills is lauter tun with boiling water to bring the tun UP to mashout temperature (74-77 deg)

Not to bring the whole mash up to a mashout temperature of 100deg C.

maybe thats what he means?? Stu is a sensible kind of a fella so I assume it is, but who knows??

I get accused fairly often of writing overly long posts ... but short posts can leave you short on information.

From where I sit:

If stu is doing a single runoff batch sparge - adding boiling water is pretty much what you would do
If he is doing a normal 2 runoff batch sparge - then its not what I would do, but if he doesn't do a traditional mash out before he sparges, then it is still probably just fine
If he does raise the mash to a M/O temp before he sparges with boiling water - then I can see potential issues and would question then technique
If he continuous or "fly" sparges - then I see all sorts of potential for the kinds of troubles people were talking about when they were discussing the original post topic

Most of us will at first assume (at least briefly) that people brew the way we do - so some people wouldn't bat an eyelid at the boiling water and some would gasp in horror. And they are all right from their own point of view.

One or two lines posts are easy to read, fast and sometimes right to the point - but life would be less confusing if when people post (and read posts) they remember that not everyone does things the way they do it. A few details can help.