First Steps In Winemaking

[jarrad]

Hey, not really sure where to put this topic.

I picked up a book called First Steps in Winemaking by a fella called C.J.J. Berry on special from the local homebrew shop. It has some pretty gnarly looking stuff (parsnip sherry or tinned fruit wine, anyone?) but there are recipes for making wine out of most of the fruits that I can think of and I'm keen to give making wine a try.

Does anyone know of this book, or had any success with anything in particular that you'd recommend? I should say that I don't have access to any large quantities of grapes at the moment.

 

[flattop]

First steps in winemaking are on the grapes sorry couldn't resist...
Apparently it's supposed to be easier than beer, my cellar is full of wine left by the previous occupant, home grown home made and dated about 1987 it is only good for vinegar....
Make sure your corkage is good as i think all his dried out!
I have vines growing back and front but they need regular pruning as otherwise the fruit becomes small. The vines grow easily and fruit well

 

[Pumpy]

Hey, not really sure where to put this topic.

I picked up a book called First Steps in Winemaking by a fella called C.J.J. Berry on special from the local homebrew shop. It has some pretty gnarly looking stuff (parsnip sherry or tinned fruit wine, anyone?) but there are recipes for making wine out of most of the fruits that I can think of and I'm keen to give making wine a try.

Does anyone know of this book, or had any success with anything in particular that you'd recommend? I should say that I don't have access to any large quantities of grapes at the moment.

yes i read this book my Mum made wine .

if you going to start wine making get some nice fresh black grapes and a good quality wine yeast suitable to the style of wine you are brewing get a one gallon glass carboy and a bung and airlock wine unlike beer can go up to 14% and it takes some monthes in a dark cupboard to arrive at this .

suggest you dont bother with parsnips or other stuff have you ever seen commercial brewers selling Chadonanay ala Parsnip no so dont wait seven months to try it is crap .

one really pleasant sparkling wine you can makeif you can get your hands on dried elderflowers or elderflower cordial is elderflower champagne .

Pumpy

 

[mwd]

Had that same book way back in the Seventies in the U.K.

Used to mess about with a bit of winemaking back then. 4lbs (2kgs) of fruit to the gallon.

Made elderflower wine from real elderflowers from the tree very nice indeed.
elderberry wine was a bit harsh needed longer than I could wait to mature.

Carrot wine tasted a bit like whisky + some imagination.

Most fruit wines came out good the vegetable ones somewhat variable. Adding old black bananas was a great addition better than BE2.

Fermentation times were in the months not days.

 

[PostModern]

4lbs (2kgs) of fruit to the gallon.

A gallon is about 3.7 litres, yeah? How do you get that much juice out of 2Kg of grapes or is water added? :huh:

 

[mwd]

A gallon is about 3.7 litres, yeah? How do you get that much juice out of 2Kg of grapes or is water added? :huh:

Yep add water to make up to a gallon + lots of sugar to get the SG up to a 'wine level'.

Imperial gallon not US gallion don't have my conversion chart here to litres. (4.3) ?

 

[roger mellie]

A friend of mine and I make about 200L of wine a year. The process is very simple - the books that you mention give the process - but steer away from the fruit wines - seldom drinkable from my experience.

Some random thoughts

1. Like most things - quality comes from the raw ingredients - fresh, ripe, wine grapes are what you need.
2. Unless you want watery wine - keep water out of the process. Concentrated flavours come from concentrated grape juice - want more volume - crush more grapes.
3. Like Beer - the yeast is the daddy. You have to firstly kill any wild yeasts then put the good yeast in (by dosing with potassium sorbate) - there are some fantastic yeasts available for red wine - we use NT-50 - you can get this in sachets.
4. Because of the huge amount of sugar and if you ferment on the skins for a few days (which you should) - beware - wine will climb out of a fermenter just like a RIS - very very messy.
5. Fermentation is over really quickly - 5 days in our case.
6. Then the fun starts - we rack up to 3 times to get the cleanest product.
7. Reductive practices work best - Oxygen is quick to spoil wine - all containers should be kept as full as possible to reduce surface area of O2.
8. and probably most importantly - to get any decent 'commercial' quality (not a swearword in winemaking) you need oak. We use american chips - adds a lovely vanilla flavour - but must have at least 6 months to integrate.

Also - fermenting in plastic is OK - but any ageing must take place in something inert - glass or SS.

We have passed our wine off as a cleanskin - it isnt hard - good fruit is the key.

 

[wakkatoo]

My old man makes his own wine with a mate. Won some locaL comps with it too. Was only telling me yesterday that they are scaling back to 1-2 batches per year as production is outstripping consumption. They currently have 1500 bottles in stock so needless to say I don't buy my wine

Never seen him do it as I've been away but hope to assist with this years batch. Dunno about that book but the old man's mate did one of those tafe short courses. Wine qulity improved outta sight after that!

 

[ausdb]

A friend of mine and I make about 200L of wine a year. The process is very simple - the books that you mention give the process - but steer away from the fruit wines - seldom drinkable from my experience.

Some random thoughts
1. Like most things - quality comes from the raw ingredients - fresh, ripe, wine grapes are what you need.
2. Unless you want watery wine - keep water out of the process. Concentrated flavours come from concentrated grape juice - want more volume - crush more grapes.
3. Like Beer - the yeast is the daddy. You have to firstly kill any wild yeasts then put the good yeast in (by dosing with potassium sorbate) - there are some fantastic yeasts available for red wine - we use NT-50 - you can get this in sachets.
4. Because of the huge amount of sugar and if you ferment on the skins for a few days (which you should) - beware - wine will climb out of a fermenter just like a RIS - very very messy.
5. Fermentation is over really quickly - 5 days in our case.
6. Then the fun starts - we rack up to 3 times to get the cleanest product.
7. Reductive practices work best - Oxygen is quick to spoil wine - all containers should be kept as full as possible to reduce surface area of O2.
8. and probably most importantly - to get any decent 'commercial' quality (not a swearword in winemaking) you need oak. We use american chips - adds a lovely vanilla flavour - but must have at least 6 months to integrate.

Also - fermenting in plastic is OK - but any ageing must take place in something inert - glass or SS.

We have passed our wine off as a cleanskin - it isnt hard - good fruit is the key.

Hi RM
I have had a crack in the past few years at home red winemaking and Randyrob joined in the fun with me this year.
Interesting to see your comment about the NT50 yeast I guess you got that from TWOC? I was not that impressed with it this year (a bit too fruity and lighter body) than the generic Bintani red wine yeast I had used in years past.
As for passing it off as a cleanskin we have also succeded and Rob entered some into ANAWABS this year and picked up a bronze medal which is not bad for a 1st time effort. Where are you sourcing your grapes from? I have been getting shiraz and merlot from the swan valley
We have also experimented with using better bottles instead of glass demijohns this year, much easier to handle and they still seem to be able to keep the O out the narrow neck is gerat for keeping the headspace to a minimum as long as you can keep the temp stable or they turn into alchohol thermometers!

 

[mwd]

Lots of good wines made from fruit other than grapes. I am a little surprised you codemn them out of hand. Blackberry, Rasberry etc make very tasty wines.

Try 'The Golden Drop' wine made from Mango by Farmers up here in FNQ quite noice but nothing like a traditional grape based wine.

Wine like beer is a balance of different flavours. I remember they used to use tea to add tannin to homemade wines.

 

[PostModern]

Lots of good wines made from fruit other than grapes. I am a little surprised you codemn them out of hand. Blackberry, Rasberry etc make very tasty wines.

Try 'The Golden Drop' wine made from Mango by Farmers up here in FNQ quite noice but nothing like a traditional grape based wine.

Wine like beer is a balance of different flavours. I remember they used to use tea to add tannin to homemade wines.

I don't mean to be rude, but I raised my eyebrows at your water and sugar comment.

As to tannins, there are plenty in red grape skins. It's like adding liquorice and coffee to stout, imho, unnecessary if you make it right. (But I am not wine maker).

 

[mwd]

Ah O.K. the penny finally dropped.

British Winemaking books mostly dealt with making wine from anything BUT grapes.
Not many wine grapes available in the U.K. back then.

The general rule of thumb was 4lb fruit ( not grapes ) 2lb sugar water up to one gallon + yeast + yeast nutrient + extras ( tea etc. ) .

I do remember even seeing a recipe for tea wine where you collected your tea leftovers and filled a demijohn. ( No never tried it ).

Making wine from grapes in them days was only for the bloody frogs and the colonials you know.

I don't think there is even one recipe for a grape wine in the C.J.J Berry Book. Look out for adventures in winemaking from asphalt, coal, root crops and mushrooms. Rocket fuel from Sugar Cane Naw will never happen.

 

[roger mellie]

Hi RM
I have had a crack in the past few years at home red winemaking and Randyrob joined in the fun with me this year.
Interesting to see your comment about the NT50 yeast I guess you got that from TWOC? I was not that impressed with it this year (a bit too fruity and lighter body) than the generic Bintani red wine yeast I had used in years past.
As for passing it off as a cleanskin we have also succeded and Rob entered some into ANAWABS this year and picked up a bronze medal which is not bad for a 1st time effort. Where are you sourcing your grapes from? I have been getting shiraz and merlot from the swan valley
We have also experimented with using better bottles instead of glass demijohns this year, much easier to handle and they still seem to be able to keep the O out the narrow neck is gerat for keeping the headspace to a minimum as long as you can keep the temp stable or they turn into alchohol thermometers!

We get our grapes from a friend who has an orchard in Dwellingup - he has 120 vines - as long as we do all the pruning and give him some product we get the grapes. Dwellingup is not famed for its wine growing I know but surprisingly good grapes if we leave them long enough to ripen. A refractometer is really handy at vintage time. As for the type of grape - there are 3 varieties I think (no one really knows) Merlot, Shiraz and Cabernet.

I dont think its that hard to get grapes - a lot of the contract growers will have sub standard grapes that they snip onto the ground. To make that volume we start with about 5 44 gallon drums(ish). It a big day picking, cleaning, squashing that many grapes but the results have been good so far. That said - looks like we will skip this year - due to Work. :angry:

Did you oak your wine?

RM

 

[jarrad]

Cor, I was talking to my uncle who runs a fruit and veg shop the other day and he's gonna keep a couple of kilos of too soft mangoes for me. I've heard mango wine is pretty agreeable.

It would be interesting to do some grape wine though.. One day.