First Marzen, looking for yeast feedback

[Kiwifirst]

Now that I have a brew fridge and fishtank pump I am keen to try my hand at brewing a German Lager style. Being a Pale Ale drinker I am usually brewing with the Safele S23 and so don't have much experience with the German style yeasts. I was looking for feedback on these two yeasts please.

White Labs WLP820 Oktoberfest/Marzen
Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager

I'll be using a mix of Munich, Pilsner and Vienna.

Cheers

 

[Weizguy]

W2206 is a malty, clean lager yeast. Have not brewed with it a lot, but what I have brewed seems spot-on for style. German lager flavours, as you get in commercial beer. Which is what I assume you want. No experience with WLP820, but some with W2308 (Munich lager) and W2124 (Bohemian lager).

Plan a Vienna lager with W2206 soon. The wort is in the no-chill can, and I plan to use a 4 litre starter, and then pitch a Maibock on the cake

 

[MCHammo]

I've not used WLP820, but I have used WLP838 (South German Lager), and was fantastic in a Vienna lager last year.

Apparently, 820 can be quite slow to start, but is great once it gets going. From White Labs, 820 and 838 would both seem to be good candidates for a Marzen. Wyeast I'm not familiar with - but I'm sure someone can help you out.

 

[O-beer-wan-kenobi]

I have a Marzen/Oktoberfest in the fermenter using WY 2308 Munich Lager. This is a re pitch from a Munich Helles which turned out as a good lager.

I cant comment on the other strains mentioned above but I think I have read that the wyeast 2206 had higher placings for these styles in BJCP competitions in the US.

 

[Snow]

I've brewed with both of those yeasts and prefer the Wyeast Octoberfest Blend over both of them. It has a better malt accentuation, good attenuation and is reasonably low in sulphur and diacetyl if you treat it nicely. Just make sure you do a decent starter (eg 3litres) with any of those yeasts and pitch at low temps(10-11c) with lots of aeration.

Cheers - Snow,.

 

[Kiwifirst]

I was planning on a starter, 3L is much bigger than I would do normally. How many grams of extract per litre is ideal for a starter. Aeration is something else I will struggle with, I can give it a good shake, but I don't have any other for, of aeration, unless I use the fish pump to spray back into the wort.

 

[going down a hill]

You want 100grams of dme per litre and I would shake as opposed to using the fish pump.

 

[Weizguy]

You want 100grams of dme per litre and I would shake as opposed to using the fish pump.

About 1.040 s.g. for your starter (unhopped) and I recently listened to a podcast with Dave Logsdon (of Wyeast) who advised that shaking (a carboy) for 4 minutes is better than aerating with a fishpump.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

2308 all the way, very suited to a Marzen.
Mash relatively low approx 65C and it will still have a nice malt background.
Nev

 

[Kiwifirst]

Thanks Guys.

That is great news about the shaking for a few minutes is good for aeration.

I think that Grain and Grape stock the 2206 Bavarian, the 2308 Munich & the Octoberfest Blend 2.

I guess since I haven't tried any of them in the past, they will all do the job and will be difficult to choose until I have tasted all three to compare.

3L starter. Wow! I am assuming that I am going to be running the starter at normal brew temps, say 10-11c, the last starter I did (read, the only one I have done) was a IPA and that was going nuts after 2 days which timed nicely with my brew day plans. Would a lager starter need more time? Should I be putting this on the go Thursday night for a Sat brew day? Or is that too soon?

 

[Screwtop]

I've brewed with both of those yeasts and prefer the Wyeast Octoberfest Blend over both of them. It has a better malt accentuation, good attenuation and is reasonably low in sulphur and diacetyl if you treat it nicely. Just make sure you do a decent starter (eg 3litres) with any of those yeasts and pitch at low temps(10-11c) with lots of aeration.

Cheers - Snow,.

I go along with Snow who's been brewing for a good while! However I have also had good results using 2308.

Thanks Guys.

That is great news about the shaking for a few minutes is good for aeration.

I think that Grain and Grape stock the 2206 Bavarian, the 2308 Munich & the Octoberfest Blend 2.

I guess since I haven't tried any of them in the past, they will all do the job and will be difficult to choose until I have tasted all three to compare.

3L starter. Wow! I am assuming that I am going to be running the starter at normal brew temps, say 10-11c, the last starter I did (read, the only one I have done) was a IPA and that was going nuts after 2 days which timed nicely with my brew day plans. Would a lager starter need more time? Should I be putting this on the go Thursday night for a Sat brew day? Or is that too soon?

Holy freholy! I would use a 6L starter in a 21L batch if fermenting at 10-11C. Pitch a 'BIG' active starter to a lager.

Screwy

 

[Kiwifirst]

Yikes, there was me quite happy with myself after just converting a 5L container into a yeast starter container.

 

[JasonP]

About 1.040 s.g. for your starter (unhopped) and I recently listened to a podcast with Dave Logsdon (of Wyeast) who advised that shaking (a carboy) for 4 minutes is better than aerating with a fishpump.

Why unhopped? I usually mildly hop my starters. Gives it added bacterial protection

Thanks Guys.

That is great news about the shaking for a few minutes is good for aeration.

I think that Grain and Grape stock the 2206 Bavarian, the 2308 Munich & the Octoberfest Blend 2.

I guess since I haven't tried any of them in the past, they will all do the job and will be difficult to choose until I have tasted all three to compare.

3L starter. Wow! I am assuming that I am going to be running the starter at normal brew temps, say 10-11c, the last starter I did (read, the only one I have done) was a IPA and that was going nuts after 2 days which timed nicely with my brew day plans. Would a lager starter need more time? Should I be putting this on the go Thursday night for a Sat brew day? Or is that too soon?

Most lager yeast growth is optimal around 22 degrees C, so make a starter around that temp. Then chill to ferment temp before pitching.

 

[Kiwifirst]

Thanks Jason. That is good to know. I was going to run the starter in the fridge.

Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees. I went into the shed this morning trying to work out what use to make a bigger starter and my eye fell on three glass demijohns sitting on the shelf. That'll do

 

[Kiwifirst]

I just looked on How to Brew and it says that you should have your starter at the same temp as you plan to brew so that it acclimates to that temp.

 

[JasonP]

I just looked on How to Brew and it says that you should have your starter at the same temp as you plan to brew so that it acclimates to that temp.

I usually have the yeast starter growing at around 20 and then cool down to fermentation temp for at least 24hrs before pitching to prevent shocking the yeast. Works for me and I don't see any reasons why it's not good practice.

 

[Weizguy]

I usually have the yeast starter growing at around 20 and then cool down to fermentation temp for at least 24hrs before pitching to prevent shocking the yeast. Works for me and I don't see any reasons why it's not good practice.

My next lager yeast starter, I plan to chill to pitching temp, get the wort to pitching temp and decant the wort from the yeast culture and reactivate it with about 100ml of fresh wort to re-suspend the yeast.

Why unhopped? I usually mildly hop my starters. Gives it added bacterial protection


Most lager yeast growth is optimal around 22 degrees C, so make a starter around that temp. Then chill to ferment temp before pitching.

The usual reason for unhopped wort is that we are making a yeast starter and not a beer. Yeast perform optimally in an unhopped medium. Again I refer you to the Basic Brewing radio - Dave Logsdon series of 3 interviews.

 

[pimpsqueak]

Another +1 for 2308 here.
I split my pack and made 2 x 2L starters.(I only have a 2L flask). Then I chilled and decanted them, then pitched the combined yeastcakes. Turned out a cracker (after 3 months Lagering of course)

 

[Kiwifirst]

Help!

I have had the Oktoberfest yeast in a starter at about 20c for two days and still no activity. I have shook, shake and rolled the the container about 10 times and nothing is happening. Anyone have any ideas how I can get this moving?

 

[Screwtop]

1. If a pack of yeast containing sufficient cells to innoculate a 20L batch is pitched to 2L of wort.......... do you think it is going to multiply?????????

2. If a pack of yeast containing sufficient cells to innoculate a 20L batch is pitched to 2L of wort.......... how long do you think it will take to ferment out??????????????

Take a gravity reading and have a think!

Screwy