First full AG help please

[Pilchard]

Most of the calculators are not ipad friendly. So have had to do the maths on the fly, can someone please look this over for me. It will be the first non BIAB and in the newly made fermentor tun thingy with the stainless braided tube.

Shooting for 22l @ 1.031

Kettle loss 4-5l per hour 90min boil 7.5l
Dead space under tap 2l
Grain absorbtion 1l/kg is 3.5
Trub loss 2-3l

Total 16l loss

So mash in with 20l and sparge with 20?

Does this sound right or am I completely out of the ball park.

Cheers

 

[MartinOC]

Pilchard, the best you can possibly do for this beer is RELAX!!...& just have a go & accept what you get & learn from it.

If this is your first AG beer, then accept it for what it turns-out as (I'm sure it'll be fine), just don't get hooked-up on the numbers.

"A very little key will open a very heavy door" - Dickens

 

[Pilchard]

So ball park is good enough and adjust from there for the system?

 

[pat86]

Yep trial and error and relax - it's easy and fun. For a first run on a new system, I would have gone with a bigger grain bill in case you miss sugars somewhere - I think I was off by about 8 gravity points on my first run

 

[MartinOC]

Yep! Just go for it.

I've lost count of the number of AG brews I've chucked down the drain, 'cos they weren't right, but it's all part of the learning-curve.

Don't take that as "expect failure", but if you do get a "failure", just learn from where & how it happened.

It's all good. Just step through the door into the slipstream & enjoy the ride..(erm....ex-Commando with beers under the belt talking here......)

 

[Pilchard]

Would it be better to undershoot water then and adjust into the fermentor say 5l less at mash in and work it out from there I can always add to a surgery wort. I have over estimated in case is loose too much at some of the stages.

Not stressing as much as trying to get my head around a full volume mash. I have read a lot so reckon I have the basics down but the massive amount of extra water needed from my 11l biabs has me worried I have not calculated well. With the biab I am getting over 80% eff. But most of my water usage is actual sparge, I'm not doing the original way with no sparge.

Cheers

 

[MartinOC]

You've got me confused here. Are you BIAB or sparging? What's your system?

 

[Pilchard]

Was originally biabing but built a mash tun from a fermentor. I sparged biab to get boil volume up.

Want to try the mash tun as a full volume mash. Hope that makes sense.

 

[mr_wibble]

If you post your full recipe, I can run it through BeerSmith, or you can download "BrewMate" for free. Obviously neither are going to do this sort of thing on the iPad.

Regardless of the recipe, I typically end up with a little liquor (water) sitting on top of the malt in the fermenter after it's mixed at the beginning of mashing.
So don't worry about the water volumes too much, there's a wide range of workable water-to-malt ratios.
If you end up with too much water (too low gravity) into the kettle, boil it off.

Make sure your mash temperature starts correctly. If it's too low add some boiling water, too high - add cold.
You don't say what style of beer, so mid-range is ~67°C, aim for that. And get it within +/- 2°C if you can.

Assuming you're batch-sparging ~ a good hint it to let the sparge water sit on the malt for some minutes, it's dissolving sugars, give it time for this.
And give it a good mix when you first put the sparge water in. Run-off the sparge water slowly.

If you can, measure the gravity of the 2nd and 3rd runnings, this is a bit difficult with a hydrometer as it's too hot.
This lets you know how much sugar your sparge water is washing from the malt. On your last sparge run, it should be on the low end.

Oh, and remember to have fun with it.

cheers,
-kt

 

[Pilchard]

Recipe as follows

Budget blonde mild

OG 1.031
FG 1.009

ABV 2.99
Bitterness 22
Boil 90mins
Colour 11

Mash in 0 @ 50C
60 mins @ 69
Mash out 10 @ 78

Cara hell 0.287
Mild ale 3.150
Sugar 0.100

Hops
Northern brewer 13g

This is all I have for the recipe.

Cheers

 

[Pilchard]

Brew Length 22 Litres Enter the Volume Required in the fermenter eg 23L
Boil Loss 15% Enter the percentage loss in the boiler due to evaporation, eg 15%
Loss to Hops 3 Litres Enter the loss to the hops and trub eg 3L
Total Grain Bill 3.5Kg Enter the total grain bill eg 4Kg
Mash Tun Dead Volume 2 Litres Enter the volume of wort remaining in the mash tun when fully drained eg 2L
Liquor To Grain Ratio 2.5 L/Kg Enter the water to grain ratio for the mash in litres eg 2.5L/Kg



A total volume of 29.4 Litres of wort is required for the boil
Collect two equal volumes of 14.7 Litres of wort from the mash tun
A total volume of 20.2 Litres of liquor is required for the first batch
Comprising of 8.8 Litres used in the mash
and 11.4 Litres to top up with
14.7 Litres of liquor is used for the second batch
A mash tun of AT LEAST 23.8 Litres will be required
The total qty of water required is 34.9 Litres, handy for water treatment

Found this calculator seems to be better numbers than what I originally guesstimated.

 

[Pilchard]

So no one can confirm if this is in the ball park? I'll be winging it them Tomorrowo, brew day so it will be the first run, I'll use the later amended waters. I'm glad you guys don't care toooo much about noob questions as usual I will wing it and call the brain trust when things go bottom up, I see a lot of recipes for seasoned brewers and not a lot of help for new ones each to their own I suppose but this is a hobby not a business and I would have thought I would have got at least a recalculation, if it is a problem I'm using a ghetto mash tun then wake up to yourselves, stainless is a big jump from cheap brewing and you will lose more people than you attract. I also understand this type of brewing is 20 years out dated but it used to work so why not now. I WILL not spend 2.5k on a brewing system if the little brother of that system does not work for me, no pumps etc but the same temps with a lot of fracking around.

 

[Pilchard]

I am wondering, knowing that I have done nice wine, fruit and grape as well as straight fruit if I need to post my questions. Obviously the AG rout should be easy but well it's not. Beer is a lot different from wines and ciders, these I know well.

I find it a little limiting in that in 2 days there is not one bloke that could take the time to check my numbers, I do not have a computer to do it. Is this just a forum of braggers, no it's not . And I am a noob to this asking for help.

Anybody... Have I hit volumes nearly, closely or should I just go back to kits and bits... Not something I really want to do after doing BIAB and tasting AG brew mister beers.

 

[dave_moriarty]

Hey mate I'm in the same basket. First AG today!! I read the guide stickied in the third thread (I think) Very helpful. It gives average numbers for mash/waster ratio and evap losses.

I'm trying to get a 23Lt batch, 5kg or grain in 15lt water

Spare with 21 lt of 80c water. ( including the 5 lt that will be absorbed into the grain)

This should give me 31 lt in the kettle pre boil. 6lt loss to evap.

25 lt left after boil

Loose 2-3 lt to trub so I SHOULD get a 22-23lt ferment



BUT. This is only an educated guess from what I read from the guide. And what the guys are saying is get close and once you have done your first you will know how much your losses are.

 

[The Village Idiot]

Hey mate I'm in the same basket. First AG today!! I read the guide stickied in the third thread (I think) Very helpful. It gives average numbers for mash/waster ratio and evap losses.

I'm trying to get a 23Lt batch, 5kg or grain in 15lt water

Spare with 21 lt of 80c water. ( including the 5 lt that will be absorbed into the grain)

This should give me 31 lt in the kettle pre boil. 6lt loss to evap.

25 lt left after boil

Loose 2-3 lt to trub so I SHOULD get a 22-23lt ferment



BUT. This is only an educated guess from what I read from the guide. And what the guys are saying is get close and once you have done your first you will know how much your losses are

That looks like a good place to start.... loss to evaporation might be a bit high depending on boil time and how strong a boil you achieve. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[mr_wibble]

It's a long weekend.

As i said, if you get too much low-gravity wort, boil for longer. If you get too little, you end up with less beer. It's not a big deal.

Your numbers look mostly fine to me. But to say that I'm thinking that for a 20-something litre batch I use about 20 litres to mash, and about 20 to sparge.

It's only beer. Make your recipe and see how it goes.

Everything will be OK.

 

[Pilchard]

Did this yesterday ended up with 1.040 overshot by 9 points. 22l to the fermenter. 20 wort plus 2l water. It won't be as mild as I thought. It's the first one that the hot break hasn't ended up in the fermentor.

This system worked surprisingly well concidering it only cost me $13 for braided hose. Took around 5 hours so on par time wise with the brewmister.

 

[manticle]

I am wondering, knowing that I have done nice wine, fruit and grape as well as straight fruit if I need to post my questions. Obviously the AG rout should be easy but well it's not. Beer is a lot different from wines and ciders, these I know well.

I find it a little limiting in that in 2 days there is not one bloke that could take the time to check my numbers, I do not have a computer to do it. Is this just a forum of braggers, no it's not . And I am a noob to this asking for help.

Anybody... Have I hit volumes nearly, closely or should I just go back to kits and bits... Not something I really want to do after doing BIAB and tasting AG brew mister beers.

Jesus mate settle down.

People are usually very helpful with people's new recipes asking for critique. There's all sorts of reasons you may not have had a response to your question and it isn't because you are a noob or people are selfish braggers.

Stressful day?

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

Jesus mate settle down.

People are usually very helpful with people's new recipes asking for critique. There's all sorts of reasons you may not have had a response to your question and it isn't because you are a noob or people are selfish braggers.

Stressful day?

Yeah sounds like you got something in the fermenter, and 9 points over seems like a good one

 

[mr_wibble]

Did this yesterday ended up with 1.040 overshot by 9 points. 22l to the fermenter. 20 wort plus 2l water. It won't be as mild as I thought. It's the first one that the hot break hasn't ended up in the fermentor.

You can always dilute it with cooled boiled water.

Beersmith says:

This system worked surprisingly well considering it only cost me $13 for braided hose. Took around 5 hours so on par time wise with the brewmister.

Yeah, my brew day is about 5 hours.