First Ag Away, Mad Keen To Do 2nd

[Wardhog]

The Maiden Voyage Pale Ale is coming along nicely, pitched yeast into 1.038 wort Saturday morning, and now looks to be 1.015 or thereabouts, and am keen to get the second batch going.
(The hydro samples taste delicious, too!)
I'm thinking I could cook up the wort on Saturday, and pitch onto the yeast cake of the first after racking it out to secondary, save buying another packet of US-56.
Will this work?
If YES,
Do I have to do anything to the yeast cake?
Can I slop the new wort in, or do I have to rack gently onto the yeast cake?
If NO,
Damn.
END IF

 

[DJR]

Just dump it on top, you won't really need to aerate it either as there will be plenty of yeast built up. Heaps of people do this when fermenting something high gravity - do a small, pale batch then put the monster on top of the yeast cake.

 

[PostModern]

Yes, it will work. You don't need the whole cake, tho if the next beer is low gravity too. Just harvest a cup of the slurry, wash and sanitise the fermenter, then pitch the cup of slurry. If you are brewing something 1.060+, then just tip it into the fermenter onto the whole yeast cake.

If you are going to be reusing yeast like this, you need to be extra special careful with sanitation as bacterial infections grow exponentially from batch to batch. I'll go so far as to say "every" batch is infected, it's just a matter of with what and to what extent. So yeah, try it once or twice, but going more than a couple of generations of recycled trub will eventually lead to undesirable results.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I reused the S04 yeast from a big old ale for a stout. I was going to just turf the stout in over the cake but chickened out and put aside a few slices before cleaning and sanitising the fermenter. It appeared to work just fine (apart from the stout volcano).

I think that sanitation is good. You don't want your yeast to do all that work then die in vain for want of a bit of cleaning.

 

[Guest Lurker]

Yes it works dumping on the whole cake, but no-one has mentioned that you need to have the wort cooled to the low end of fermenting temperature before you do that, as you may get a very rapid start to fermentation with associated heat generation.

 

[Wardhog]

Just harvest a cup of the slurry, wash and sanitise the fermenter, then pitch the cup of slurry. If you are brewing something 1.060+, then just tip it into the fermenter onto the whole yeast cake.

The yeast cake is the settled slurry, yes? Just a bit confused by the terminology.

The Second Fleet brew will go into a different fermenter with a cup of slurry, methinks.

 

[bindi]

Half a cup is all you need, one of the guru wrote this awhile back so I made it my method also .

 

[Uncle Fester]

***** SLIGHT HIJACK *****

As an aside, when harvesting yeast, is it best to do an initial ferment with the yeast and then split the trub for re-use, or woud it be better to take the yeast and make a 3 litre starter which is then split half a dozen ways for stepping up at a later date?


I have only recultured a yeast twice, with opposite results to eachother...

Cultured the yeast from 2 Coopers Pale Ale long necks and threw it into a Coopers Sparkling Ale kit - Great result.

Attempted to reuse about a third of a US-56 yeast cake on a Muntons Bitter kit - Dettol City :angry:

Thinking of going liquid yeast, but want better economy tan $12 a keg.

***** HIJACK OVER *****


Fester.

 

[roger mellie]

I dont get it?

Another packet of US-56 at a staggering $3.50?!?

Why go to all the hassle of harvesting yeast from a packet? From a liquid I can see merit (just) - is there something fantastic that 2nd hand yeast adds to the mix that is worth the $3.50 saving??

RM

 

[benno1973]

Why go to all the hassle of harvesting yeast from a packet? From a liquid I can see merit (just) - is there something fantastic that 2nd hand yeast adds to the mix that is worth the $3.50 saving??

I agree with Roger. The hassle and possible problems associated with harvesting the yeast as opposed to just pitching a new packet surely wouldn't be worth that amount of money? I would only consider doing that with US56 if I had cold wort ready for pitching and no access to a fresh packet of dry yeast! :blink:

 

[Screwtop]

Forget what the anti-recyclers above have to say Wardhog. Reculture and learn, thats what this hobby is about. It's not about saving money it's about the craft. For your next brew pitch slurry at the rate of 1:100 (230ml for 23L). Sanitise (boiling water) a couple of glass jars and lids (pickle bottles etc) in advance, like today, put in a little no-rinse sanitiser, give a shake and store away until required. After racking swirl the left over beer and yeast slurry to make it flow easily and tap out the 230ml for re-pitching into the next batch if using it the same day or into one of the sanitised jars for re-pitching at a later date, it can be stored this way in the fridge for up to a week. Drain off the rest into the second jar and put it in the fridge overnight to settle out, next day wash it using cooled boiled water (do a search for yeast washing, it's easy), it can be stored under sterile water for many months. With good sanitation yeast can be recultured safely up to about 5 times, keep track of the generations. US56 is a good all rounder so it's good to have a culture in the fridge, do the same with other strains and you'll always have a culture of something in the fridge and never be caught short for yeast.

 

[Wardhog]

is there something fantastic that 2nd hand yeast adds to the mix that is worth the $3.50 saving??

No, it's the "Hey, I got two uses out of that where I only used to get one. I didn't know I could do that." factor.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Shame on you Roger and Kaiser

Yeast recycling is definatley the way to go.
Its not about cost. Its just another aspect of brewing.
I would be lucky to buy 2-3 packets of yeast a year. Once you get your sanitisation down pat it is as easy as.

An easier method, which is actually a bit better, is to drain off about 1 litre from the ferm after about day 3 or when the krausen gets nice and big. This is usually at about 1/2 Gravity. Ie if your SG is 1050, when it hits about 1020-1025 draw off a litre into a sanitized softdrink bottle, seal and stick in the fridge.

This gives you an instant starter of healthy yeast. Just pour the whole lot into your next brew, then draw off the same amount you added halfway thru the ferment.

You can do this over and over and over.

And remember that you save $3.50 every time. B)

Alternativly maybe Roger could send a fresh packet each time you want to brew....

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I don't believe that anything of what craft or hobby brewers do is necessarily about saving money, per se.

It is about exploring and proving techniques and capabilities. If you manage to save a dollar or two while doing it, then that is an extra win.

Recycling yeast is like culturing yeast from bottled beer - not an attempt to save money, but other things, such as achieving a particular flavour or outcome. I've done both of these things and I think I can afford the seven dollars or so I saved.

It's a hobby... a craft... a calling.

Enjoy.

 

[bindi]

Off topic..........
Have any of you had a yeast morph [change] to something very special?
In my large yeast farm I have some special stains that are Very special. and NO you can't get any not yet.
mixed basic and some Belgians that are .

 

[roger mellie]

I don't believe that anything of what craft or hobby brewers do is necessarily about saving money, per se.

:blink: - ya reckon?

It is about exploring and proving techniques and capabilities. If you manage to save a dollar or two while doing it, then that is an extra win.

Recycling yeast is like culturing yeast from bottled beer - not an attempt to save money, but other things, such as achieving a particular flavour or outcome. I've done both of these things and I think I can afford the seven dollars or so I saved.

Enjoy.

But does it though? Achieve anything special I mean. And how would you know before you set out on the "pitch my wort onto some 'unknown possibly mutant strain' of 2nd hand US-56" path? What if said 'specially harvested' mutant yeast strain made something that tasted like VB - then you would have wasted 20 odd schekels worth of ingredients (maybe more).

Which would make the 3.50 on a packet of US-56 seem very good value.

I can see merit if it was a case of culturing a bottled beer - or a seasonal liquid strain - something with esoterical value - but US-56?

I know that the squeaky yeast harvesters will say that the above never happens - I remain a naysayer.

RM

 

[browndog]

But does it though? Achieve anything special I mean. And how would you know before you set out on the "pitch my wort onto some 'unknown possibly mutant strain' of 2nd hand US-56" path? What if said 'specially harvested' mutant yeast strain made something that tasted like VB - then you would have wasted 20 odd schekels worth of ingredients (maybe more).

Which would make the 3.50 on a packet of US-56 seem very good value.

I can see merit if it was a case of culturing a bottled beer - or a seasonal liquid strain - something with esoterical value - but US-56?

I know that the squeaky yeast harvesters will say that the above never happens - I remain a naysayer.

RM

Where does the mutant bit come in Rodger? Certainly not in the first couple of repitchings, nor in the couple after that. If yeast mutated as quickly as you are suggesting then we would not have all the strains available to us today, there would be simply one "suck it and see" strain. Anyone with enough nouse to keep their fermenters and kegs/bottles clean has the skill to harvest their yeast and I think we owe it to the little buggers. Here they are, working their arses off for us producing beer and after all that hard work they get tipped onto the lawn or down the drain !! They deserve better. They deserve to be given the oppertunity to fight another day! SQUEAKY YEAST HARVESTERS UNITE AGAINST THE HEATHENS......

cheers

Browndog

 

[jaytee]

[/quote]But does it though? Achieve anything special I mean.

Sure, it gives a great ferment.

You're adding your wort to a whole heap of healthy active yeast which are just chomping at the bit to get their teeth into some more fermentables !

You know the yeast is in good shape, it's just fermented a good beer for you. It also saves you time preparing a new starter or rehydrating your packet yeast

jaytee

 

[Wardhog]

The convenience and timing of the 2nd hand US-56 is also why I want to do this. It'll so happen that a batch will be ready to secondary/bottle at the same time, thus leaving a ready source of working yeast, and I'll be ready to pitch into my second batch.

And just 'cos I can. :beerbang:

 

[gnewell]

Shame on you Roger and Kaiser

Yeast recycling is definatley the way to go.
Its not about cost. Its just another aspect of brewing.
I would be lucky to buy 2-3 packets of yeast a year. Once you get your sanitisation down pat it is as easy as.

An easier method, which is actually a bit better, is to drain off about 1 litre from the ferm after about day 3 or when the krausen gets nice and big. This is usually at about 1/2 Gravity. Ie if your SG is 1050, when it hits about 1020-1025 draw off a litre into a sanitized softdrink bottle, seal and stick in the fridge.

This gives you an instant starter of healthy yeast. Just pour the whole lot into your next brew, then draw off the same amount you added halfway thru the ferment.

You can do this over and over and over.

And remember that you save $3.50 every time. B)

Alternativly maybe Roger could send a fresh packet each time you want to brew....

Hi Stu,
We met at Ross's place a couple of months ago.
Couple of queries for you about drawing off 1 litre of wort at 1/2 gravity:
1) Do you let it ferment out in the soft drink bottle before you refrigerate. Or does it slowly continue
fermenting in the fridge.
2) Also, what about the pressure buildup. Do you vent?
3) Do you draw off from the top or bottom of the fermenter?

If anyone else has some thoughts on yeast harvesting / skimming. That is how the major breweries do it I believe? Certainly the Burton Union style of fermentation stores the yeast as it froths out of the fermenter.