Fine tuning my brewing - looking for advice/help.

[Ciderman]

My basic equipment consists of the following:

19L Big W Pot HLT. Ball Valve. Electric Kettle.
60L Fibreglass Esky Mash Tun. Ball Valve. Bazooka Filter
Home made PVC pipe fly sparge
70L pot. 3 ring burner. Ball Valve.

I made up my last recipe on Beersmith. I like the app and it seems to be a lot easier to use when I build my own recipe as oppose to using an existing recipe. My last 23L batch used about 5.8kg of grain and 15L water. I fly sparged with a further 25L. I have been aiming for 70% efficiency. I use reverse osmosis water.

I have previously had fermentation issues caused by mashing too high (dodgy thermometer). This has been remedied by using an infared digital thermometer. I mashed for 60 mins. Would I achieve greater effeciency by mashing for 90mins?

I believe my efficiency is ordinary. After sparging for 45 mins my reading was 1.034 when I was trying to get 1.036. What can I do to improve my effeciency?

I plan on building a new fly sparge, the current model doesn't drip out of all the holes.

Boiling. I'm assuming you actually wait till you get a roiling boil before starting the timer, this is what I have been doing. I'm curious as to what the difference is between a 90m vs 60m boil? Beersmith automatically put me on 90m boil. What difference does this make?

My FG ended up being 1.046 when I was shooting for 1.053. I find myself checking the volume as its boiling with a marked paddle. I boiled 34L for 90 mins and achieved 24L post boil. Exactly what beersmith had predicted. I often check the gravity as the boil rolls along in a Refractometer. I always seem to be in the position of, do I continue to boil to achieve the desired gravity at the expense of higher IBU, or just finish the boil and keep the desired IBU.

I use a submersion chiller and ferment at 18 degrees in an old fridge.

This is the best beer I have made so far, but I know I need to iron out a few kinks to get things perfect.

What am I doing wrong and what could I be doing better? Do you see any obvious upgrades that need to be made. The only thing planned was a bigger HLT.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Blind Dog]

When you say FG of 1.046 I'm assuming you mean post boil gravity? What was the OG reading when you transferred to the fermenter?

Beersmith is a great program, but you do need to dial in your system with reasonable accuracy to get the most out of it. Personally I wouldn't be too fussed missing pre-boil Gravity by a couple of points, but I would be concerned with missing post boil gravity by 7 points

Have you measured your actual mash, brew house and final packaged efficiencies, or are you just assuming 70%? And what efficiency is it? There's a bunch of tips around on increasing efficiency, but I'd suggest you need a baseline for your system first before trying them out otherwise you won't be able to assess what works well for you and your system.

 

[Ciderman]

When you say FG of 1.046 I'm assuming you mean post boil gravity? What was the OG reading when you transferred to the fermenter?
Beersmith is a great program, but you do need to dial in your system with reasonable accuracy to get the most out of it. Personally I wouldn't be too fussed missing pre-boil Gravity by a couple of points, but I would be concerned with missing post boil gravity by 7 points
Have you measured your actual mash, brew house and final packaged efficiencies, or are you just assuming 70%? And what efficiency is it? There's a bunch of tips around on increasing efficiency, but I'd suggest you need a baseline for your system first before trying them out otherwise you won't be able to assess what works well for you and your system.

Yes I meant post boil gravity, this was the same once transferred to the fermenter. 1.046. I've just used the online calculators for previous brews and just assumed that as my average. That said, it sounds like I need to measure a lot more than what I have been.

 

[Blind Dog]

Yes I meant post boil gravity, this was the same once transferred to the fermenter. 1.046. I've just used the online calculators for previous brews and just assumed that as my average. That said, it sounds like I need to measure a lot more than what I have been.

Not a lot more, beersmith does the calcs for you if you set the options at the bottom of the page (assuming you use the full version)

 

[indica86]

Infrared digital thermometer will not tell you your temps, merely the temperature on the surface of whatever you are measuring.
25L sparge is big isn't it?
Perhaps go a bigger volume of water for the mash?
Is this your first brew with this kit?
I BIAB and have found my efficiency better doing the same thing repeatedly. Getting to know the gear.

 

[Ciderman]

Got the full version on iPad, so it may differ from the pc version. I'll have a play around with it.

4th AG brew. I'm just following directions from beer smith in regards to the 25L. Gave me 34L pre boil and I boiled off 10L to get 24L. Sounds like I need to make some changes for it to give me the right path.

Your right about the infared thermometer, it does take surface temperature but it's easy enough to get an accurate reading by moving things around a bit. I'll buy a digital thermometer but this was loaned to me and a huge upgrade on my cheese thermometer which was way off.

 

[Nizmoose]

Just thought I'd make sure you're either cooling your samples or adjusting the measurements for temp when checking gravity?

 

[mr_wibble]

When you say "After sparging for 45 mins my reading was 1.034" ...
What reading was 1.034 - the gravity of the wort coming from your mash? The gravity of the full-volume of wort? Something else?

Remember that sparging is "washing" sugar (and flavour) from your malt. You want to keep washing until you've got all the goodness out.
How do you tell when to stop? Take a gravity reading.

If you continuously check the gravity of the newly spared wort (not the cumulative wort, just the next bit from the tap), it should be decreasing.

For example, on my last brew (Belgian style pale ale) I batch sparged (esky mash tun) three times.
My notes say:
1st runnings --> 1.068
2nd runnings --> 1.039
3rd runnings --> 1.014
Giving me a pre-boil (cumulative) gravity of 1.036
I then boiled for an hour, with a post-boil gravity of 1.041
(I actually didn't boil hard enough, and was a few points low on target, but I ran out of time, had to go out. Usual excuses I know.)

If your sparge-output still has a high gravity, keep sparging.
So IMHO, don't worry so much about "efficiency", worry about achieving a desired pre-boil gravity.

You really want a refractometer to ease taking these quick measurements. They're not expensive.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Getting your system dialled in will be well worth the effort. From what I have read you can make some adjustments;

Here are a few ideas and information about what to expect;

• 60L mashtun - try mashing with 2/3 of your expected preboil volume and run the fly sparge till you collect your preboil Volume
• or.....try a btach sparge to see how that fairs - mash with enough water to get 1st running and 1/2 expected preboil vol and then add/stir other half into mash tun and drain off
• or.....mash with 2.5lts per kg, raise to mashout temp by adding 100c water ( beersmith will tell you how much using infusion) then fly sparge until preboil volume is achieve

• You should be getting approx 5 points from a 60min boil and 7 from a 90min boil, really depends on your boil vigour ( those are what I get )
• I found it extremely hard to get Beersmith to show the correct preboil gravity, it was always 4-5points lower than what I was getting, now I know my system, I look at final gravity expected and deduct 5 (60m) 7 (90m) boil and that tells me my preboil gravity
• Checking your gravity must be done with a cooled sample - room temp is preffered, unless you have a digital refractometer
• after a few brews you will have your Brewhouse Eff into beersmith more accurate, start with 60% and work up from there, i used to be set at 75 and now dialled in at 68% for grain bills < 4.5kg, 65% for betweeen 4.5 and 5.5kg and anything over 5.5kg I set for 62% and if i go over that and get a higher preboil gravity, I will boil more or adjust with water to get desired final gravity( adjusting hops additions to suit)

good luck.

 

[Ciderman]

When you say "After sparging for 45 mins my reading was 1.034" ...
What reading was 1.034 - the gravity of the wort coming from your mash? The gravity of the full-volume of wort? Something else?

Remember that sparging is "washing" sugar (and flavour) from your malt. You want to keep washing until you've got all the goodness out.
How do you tell when to stop? Take a gravity reading.

If you continuously check the gravity of the newly spared wort (not the cumulative wort, just the next bit from the tap), it should be decreasing.

For example, on my last brew (Belgian style pale ale) I batch sparged (esky mash tun) three times.
My notes say:
1st runnings --> 1.068
2nd runnings --> 1.039
3rd runnings --> 1.014
Giving me a pre-boil (cumulative) gravity of 1.036
I then boiled for an hour, with a post-boil gravity of 1.041
(I actually didn't boil hard enough, and was a few points low on target, but I ran out of time, had to go out. Usual excuses I know.)

If your sparge-output still has a high gravity, keep sparging.
So IMHO, don't worry so much about "efficiency", worry about achieving a desired pre-boil gravity.

You really want a refractometer to ease taking these quick measurements. They're not expensive.

I have been fly sparging for no other reason than I had perceived that it was better than batch sparging? The gravity reading was taken from the boiling pot, cooled and measured with a Refractometer once all the liquid was collected. So I'm gathering the more sparge water that is added, the lower my reading will be? Had a held one litre of water back for example, I may have got a reading 2 points higher?

 

[Ciderman]

Getting your system dialled in will be well worth the effort. From what I have read you can make some adjustments;

Here are a few ideas and information about what to expect;

• 60L mashtun - try mashing with 2/3 of your expected preboil volume and run the fly sparge till you collect your preboil Volume
• or.....try a btach sparge to see how that fairs - mash with enough water to get 1st running and 1/2 expected preboil vol and then add/stir other half into mash tun and drain off
• or.....mash with 2.5lts per kg, raise to mashout temp by adding 100c water ( beersmith will tell you how much using infusion) then fly sparge until preboil volume is achieve

• You should be getting approx 5 points from a 60min boil and 7 from a 90min boil, really depends on your boil vigour ( those are what I get )
• I found it extremely hard to get Beersmith to show the correct preboil gravity, it was always 4-5points lower than what I was getting, now I know my system, I look at final gravity expected and deduct 5 (60m) 7 (90m) boil and that tells me my preboil gravity
• Checking your gravity must be done with a cooled sample - room temp is preffered, unless you have a digital refractometer
• after a few brews you will have your Brewhouse Eff into beersmith more accurate, start with 60% and work up from there, i used to be set at 75 and now dialled in at 68% for grain bills < 4.5kg, 65% for betweeen 4.5 and 5.5kg and anything over 5.5kg I set for 62% and if i go over that and get a higher preboil gravity, I will boil more or adjust with water to get desired final gravity( adjusting hops additions to suit)

good luck.

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

 

[Tex083]

I was fly spaging too for the perceived benefit of increased efficiency, last brew I batch sparged and lost a couple of points of gravity but the sparge took 20mins rather than 45-60 and came to the boil faster.
I previously waited until a rolling boil to start the clock, after doing a brewer for a day at a craft brewery they don't wait.
DMS is evaporated >80 I think it was and hops isomerise at the same temp so you can get close enough and start the timer.

 

[Dan Pratt]

I have been fly sparging for no other reason than I had perceived that it was better than batch sparging? The gravity reading was taken from the boiling pot, cooled and measured with a Refractometer once all the liquid was collected. So I'm gathering the more sparge water that is added, the lower my reading will be? Had a held one litre of water back for example, I may have got a reading 2 points higher?

The sparging for me is dependant on how much time I have or what I feel like doing. I have found that they both yield good results, fly sparge just takes a bit more time. The more you sparge the lower the gravity and higher the volume for preboil.

 

[rude]

I do 25 L for 24L in cube single infusion 3:1 (15 L) , mash out 10L , batch sparge 20 L for 34 - 35 L in kettle
I boil for 90 min & quite hard no lid so about 26 - 27L left in kettle
I only worry about efficiency because I want to hit my og readings so if I only got 50% no biggy just more malt needed
Pretty much got it dialed in but, stirring the sparge more seams to change the efficiency as last all Pils brew had heaps of dough balls
The most improved part for me is temp control , yeast health & pitching the right number of yeast cells
It takes time to get better mash temps as you say make a diff for yeast attenuating
As you can see I'm yeast driven at the moment because reading yeast by Chris White
Sounds like you are on the right track keep heaps of notes & you will dial it in, I have Beer Smith1 but also like to use Brew Mate

 

[Ciderman]

Thanks for your help guys