Fermenting Under Pressure

[ridge runner]

Good morning all, I have decided that those with greater knowledge are probably right. But since I do brew some small (5 litre) batches and now that I have a 9 litre keg/ fermenter, I will continue to use the process! In fact I put down a Saison yesterday and it’s doing nicely.
I have enjoyed the conversation though
Cheers

Hiw did the saison turn out . I made one also but stayed at 19deg and 10psi for the ferment . Cant seem to find any info regarding using a spunding valve at higher temps?

 

[Kenf]

It turned out ok - but I have such a back log of kegs to drink it’s still waiting to be drunk!
I think 19 is ok for Saison
There is a lot of conflicting info out there, I’m sought of forging my own path

 

[ozgib]

What sort of pressure should you aim for when fermenting under pressure? I mainly make German style beer using lager yeast?

 

[devoutharpist]

Morning everyone.

I recently got a fermentasaurus snubnose that i plan to use on my next brew. How has everyone been fermenting under pressure using these units?

Do you just chuck the yeast into the wort and then close it up? Do you add any CO2 once you close it, or add a spunding valve so it doesn't get too pressurised??

 

[wide eyed and legless]

http://www.terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf

 

[devoutharpist]

http://www.terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf

Of course... it makes so much sense to make a blowoff tube using a gas disconnect . I watched a whole bunch of 'saurus and similar videos and never saw a blowoff tube being used when people had it in action.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Of course... it makes so much sense to make a blowoff tube using a gas disconnect . I watched a whole bunch of 'saurus and similar videos and never saw a blowoff tube being used when people had it in action.

I don't know what style you brew but a lot of people have wandered off the the course laid out by Terri Fahrendorf. I did try the higher temperature and pressure to make a faux lager/pilsner but it was nothing like a lager/pilsner where lagering at low temperatures are used.

 

[devoutharpist]

I don't know what style you brew but a lot of people have wandered off the the course laid out by Terri Fahrendorf. I did try the higher temperature and pressure to make a faux lager/pilsner but it was nothing like a lager/pilsner where lagering at low temperatures are used.

I'm definitely more of an ale brewer than a lager brewer. My main priority for fermenting under pressure is to reduce oxygen exposure when i do more hop forward beers.

So what i am thinking is.. using a blow-off for a few days and then capping (if i am using the right term... i just read all 34 pages of this thread and my brain hurts) to build up some pressure before cold crash. This should negate the issue of sucking oxygen back into the fermenter through an airlock and from here i can also start to carbonate before a closed transfer into a keg.

 

[krz]

I don't know what style you brew but a lot of people have wandered off the the course laid out by Terri Fahrendorf. I did try the higher temperature and pressure to make a faux lager/pilsner but it was nothing like a lager/pilsner where lagering at low temperatures are used.

Maybe do a few more experiments WEAL. Many ppl have been espousing that pressure produces good results.

 

[Greg Donohue]

What sort of pressure should you aim for when fermenting under pressure? I mainly make German style beer using lager yeast?

I ferment at 1.7bar .
Gives me a perfect carbonation after cold crash .

 

[Greg Donohue]

Morning everyone.

I recently got a fermentasaurus snubnose that i plan to use on my next brew. How has everyone been fermenting under pressure using these units?

Do you just chuck the yeast into the wort and then close it up? Do you add any CO2 once you close it, or add a spunding valve so it doesn't get too pressurised??

You will need a spunfing valve otherwise it will blow up .
Yes just hydrate your yeast and close up .
You can fire a bit of gas in to make sure you have a seal .

 

[keine_ahnung]

What sort of pressure should you aim for when fermenting under pressure? I mainly make German style beer using lager yeast?

Somewhere between atmospheric pressure and atmospheric pressure.
Focus on getting an appropriate yeast cell count, good aeration of your wort, appropriate fermentation temp and most importantly ---> an appropriate pitching temp (e.g. 6-8°C)

 

[Grok]

I've been pressure fermenting ales for about 2 years solid now and wonder why peeps don't do it. I use 20/20 vision.... PRV set to about 20psi and keep temp at 20C and let it do its thing, pressurized right from the start and you can get away with less headroom too. I've been using WLP001 (California Ale yeast by White Labs) for a while and it seems very happy under pressure and does a good job.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I'm definitely more of an ale brewer than a lager brewer. My main priority for fermenting under pressure is to reduce oxygen exposure when i do more hop forward beers.

So what i am thinking is.. using a blow-off for a few days and then capping (if i am using the right term... i just read all 34 pages of this thread and my brain hurts) to build up some pressure before cold crash. This should negate the issue of sucking oxygen back into the fermenter through an airlock and from here i can also start to carbonate before a closed transfer into a keg.

On the right track but not as simple as that, 2 days of a vigorous ferment gets the unwanted elements from the beer evacuating with the co2. Cap the ferment using a spunding valve and pressurise the beer.
Now you come to the tricky bit, you can't just put a pressurised vessel into a cold crash, I think someone on a thread here posted a pic of their s/steel fermenter which was sealed and the lid sucked in due to the co2 being drawn back into the beer, put your snub nose in, leave it for about 20 mins and you will see what I mean. I counteracted this by putting an expandable plastic water bottle filled with co2 connected to the gas post of the fermenter, so as the gas is drawn into the beer it is replaced by the gas I had collected. Or you could just use gas from a bottle.

Maybe do a few more experiments WEAL. Many ppl have been espousing that pressure produces good results.

And there are even more not pressure fermenting. Terri Fahrendorf a brewer, laid out solid ground rules for carbonating under pressure. Which is what almost all the pro brewers do to carbonate their beers.

 

[devoutharpist]

Now you come to the tricky bit, you can't just put a pressurised vessel into a cold crash, I think someone on a thread here posted a pic of their s/steel fermenter which was sealed and the lid sucked in due to the co2 being drawn back into the beer, put your snub nose in, leave it for about 20 mins and you will see what I mean. I counteracted this by putting an expandable plastic water bottle filled with co2 connected to the gas post of the fermenter, so as the gas is drawn into the beer it is replaced by the gas I had collected. Or you could just use gas from a bottle.

I was initially thinking i could build up enough pressure to counteract it, so that it wouldn't get to the stage of collapse, but i can see that might not be enough. I guess i could swap the spunding over for a co2 bottle and set the regulator pressure to whatever it was before (15psi etc), until the crash has completed.

 

[Fro-Daddy]

I ferment at 5psi in the original Fermentasaurus, no side wall collapse with that pressure going from 19°C to 2°C.

 

[Mall]

I do all my ferments in a 50L Sanke Keg @ 19C with Spunding Valve set at 8-10 psi. After a week I attach pouring tap to the coupler to double check FG then drop temp to 3-4C. Two days, pour carbonated sample, may be 2 then transfer under pressure to my 2 serving corny kegs. You cannot get better beer...

 

[devoutharpist]

Thanks for the replies everyone, i've got a lot of tips now and the main conclusion i am getting is "give it a go and see what works for you". Will definitely be keeping an eye while cold crashing though, just in case i do get some collapse.

Does anyone depressurise to add dry hops? Mainly those without the non-snubnose 'saurus. Guess you could also closed transfer the beer into another pressurised fermenter already holding the dryhops.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Thanks for the replies everyone, i've got a lot of tips now and the main conclusion i am getting is "give it a go and see what works for you". Will definitely be keeping an eye while cold crashing though, just in case i do get some collapse.

Does anyone depressurise to add dry hops? Mainly those without the non-snubnose 'saurus. Guess you could also closed transfer the beer into another pressurised fermenter already holding the dryhops.

If you got the 2 snub nose deal, daisy chain through the second fermenter with the dry hops.

From the low oxygen brewing thread.
Posted 10/7/16
I'm just gonna put this here..

 

[Grok]

Is everyone crazy?....if you had good pressure in your fermenter from the start and all during ferment, then on cold crash it will drop about 5 psi, thats all! I do it all the time, from about 20psi goes down to about 15psi.

 

[Greg Donohue]

On the right track but not as simple as that, 2 days of a vigorous ferment gets the unwanted elements from the beer evacuating with the co2. Cap the ferment using a spunding valve and pressurise the beer.
Now you come to the tricky bit, you can't just put a pressurised vessel into a cold crash, I think someone on a thread here posted a pic of their s/steel fermenter which was sealed and the lid sucked in due to the co2 being drawn back into the beer, put your snub nose in, leave it for about 20 mins and you will see what I mean. I counteracted this by putting an expandable plastic water bottle filled with co2 connected to the gas post of the fermenter, so as the gas is drawn into the beer it is replaced by the gas I had collected. Or you could just use gas from a bottle.


And there are even more not pressure fermenting. Terri Fahrendorf a brewer, laid out solid ground rules for carbonating under pressure. Which is what almost all the pro brewers do to carbonate their beers.

Please do a bit of homework .
If you ferment at a decent pressure which is self carbonation this will not happen .
My pressure drops about .3 of a bar or 4psi
After i cold crash .
Never in a million year's will it implode .

 

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

If you need to hop your pressure fermented beers consider using a randalling device, and pumping the beer through it across the disconnects.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Please do a bit of homework .
If you ferment at a decent pressure which is self carbonation this will not happen .
My pressure drops about .3 of a bar or 4psi
After i cold crash .
Never in a million year's will it implode .

If you had taken the time to read my previous posts, you would have seen that the maximum pressure I went to was 2 psi, and you can take my word for it if a breather isn't attached, the PET fermenters will suck in. As you stated your pressure drops 3-4 psi that leaves mine as a negative 1-2 psi.

 

[Greg Donohue]

If you had taken the time to read my previous posts, you would have seen that the maximum pressure I went to was 2 psi, and you can take my word for it if a breather isn't attached, the PET fermenters will suck in. As you stated your pressure drops 3-4 psi that leaves mine as a negative 1-2 psi.

My bad .
Apologies .
Why would you only go to 2psi?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

My bad .
Apologies .
Why would you only go to 2psi?

I like to keep the esters of the yeast, I brew mainly English style beers, the lower pressure keeps the esters in tact. If I was brewing an AIPA I would be tempted to go higher as they are more hop forward.

 

[Half-baked]

Hi WEAL, to turn the question around, what are the benefits of fermenting at 2 PSI vs no pressure?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Hi WEAL, to turn the question around, what are the benefits of fermenting at 2 PSI vs no pressure?

Ensuring I get no oxygen during transfer, the best advice is what Kiene _ahnung said in post 672. He is a brewer and not going to give out duff advice.
Another thing I find strange is, all the respected writers on brewing has never come out and given endorsements on fermenting under pressure. Some time ago I emailed John Palmer about pressurised fermentation, he replied, 'Why would anyone do that'.

 

[bruiserbbq]

I noticed that Russian River’s new brewery has pressure fermenters....so they must think it beneficial!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I noticed that Russian River’s new brewery has pressure fermenters....so they must think it beneficial!

They are all pressure fermenters capable of 15 PSI minimum used for carbonating as described by Terri Fahrendorf

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

I noticed that Russian River’s new brewery has pressure fermenters....so they must think it beneficial!

All of the 3 micro's near me have pressure rated vessels. They're pressure rated for transferring and carbing.

My favourite micro has 3000litre and 6000litre fermenter and bright tanks. I've done a couple of brew days with him and asked a lot of questions. When we spoke about pressure fermenting he said it is not something to do as it stresses the yeast. The only time he said to use a spunding valve was when there is a couple of points left to build some transfer pressure. He knows of no pro brewers who pressure ferment.

This fermenting under pressure that home brewers are trying is not the same as what's happening in a big tall vessel.

They all carb the beer from tank c02 and not from spunding.