Fermentation Issues - Again With The Same Yeast - High Fg

[Adzmax]

The is the second time I've used this yeast and I seem to be having similar problems...I think. I pitched a 1ltr starter on Sunday night and by the next morning had very healthy fermentation @ 19c. 2 days later the air lock was going berserk, very healthy indeed. It's now Friday so it's been 5 days, I too a gravity reading last night and it seems to have slowed at around 1.024 which is a tad high, starting gravity from memory was around 1.061. I'm still expecting it to drop a few points. Last time I used this yeast I ended up with a high FG and am worried I'll get the same again (mind you it was still a top beer). Any ideas? Anyone used this yeast before and experienced similar issues?


Wyeast Labs Irish Ale - 1084

Yeast Type Ale
Yeast Form Liquid
Floccuation Medium
Attenuation 73.0 %
Optimum Fermentation Temperature 16c-22c

Description This yeast ferments extremely well in dark roast worts. Beers fermented in the lower temperature range produce dry and crisp beers to fruity beers with nice complexity in the upper range. Ester production is enhanced and rich with fermentation temperatures above 64 F, (18 C). Flocculation is low to moderate with filtration typically required. Alcohol tolerance is approximately 10-11% ABV.

 

[Stuster]

So if it was a good strong fermentation, it seems unlikely that the yeast has just carked out on a 1060 beer. I'd guess that anything round the 1016-18 mark is about what you'd expect from this yeast. The other possibility is that there are too many unfermentables in the wort from a high mash temp, lots of crystal, malto-dextrin etc. What were the recipes for these? What was the other beer and what sort of OG and FG did you get for that?

 

[Guest Lurker]

I don't use 1084 anymore for those reasons. Ferment above 19 deg and shitloads of banana ester. Get it below 18 and it slows right down. Lots of people seem to use it successfully, so there must be a knack, but my experience is similar to yours.

 

[Adzmax]

Stuster - You're right, it's sweet high mash temp beer. I've got the recipe here, Beersmith said about 1.015ish, I think that's a bit low personally though I could be wrong.


Recipe: Ant Eater Irish Ale
Brewer: Adam Nightingale
Asst Brewer:
Style: Irish Red Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 27.43 L
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 19.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 27.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Golden Promise Malt (Bairds) (5.0 EBC) Grain 59.26 %
2.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 29.63 %
0.75 kg Carared (Weyermann) (47.3 EBC) Grain 11.11 %
40.00 gm Fuggles [4.40 %] (60 min) Hops 17.6 IBU
40.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (20 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
40.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (10 min) (ArHops -
0.50 items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
23.00 L Melbourne, South East Water
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) [Starter 1000ml Yeast-Ale]


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.75 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 17.62 L of water and heat to 69.69.0 C
10 min Mash Out Add 7.02 L of water and heat to 76.076.0 C

 

[Stuster]

Yep, 11% crystal and a 69C mash temp will do that. I've had some similar issues before. You never know though, it might still be very drinkable anyway, and the nice amount of late hops should help with that. I'd say give it another week and see if it can chew through a few points more (and maybe mash lower next time ).

It seems that lots of people have issues with this yeast, GL. There were a few beers in the NSW Xmas in July case with loads of esters from this yeast and I've read of a few other people who've given up using it. Might avoid that one for now.

 

[rich_lamb]

Stuster is on the money; the main issue here is the mash schedule - but still sounds like tasty beer!

Pure coincidence that yeast has a few other issues. I can add to the list - a brew buddy of mine used it a couple of times in a stout and even when he kept the temperature low-ish (18) he had noticable amounts of fusel alcohol.

Perhaps this yeast is at it's best when pitched in great quantity? ie. a lot of the problems being described are typical of underpitching. In fact the original post mentions a 1L starter in a beer with OG 1.060+ (which would probably do better with a 4L starter).

 

[Ross]

I always seemed to have issues with this yeast as well & no longer use it.
That grain bill & the high mash temp though are the main culprits here I believe. I would not be expecting it to reach 1020.

Cheers Ross

 

[Adzmax]

No worries, thanks for the valuable input guys. My last recipe was very similar to this one, had the same grain bill but user JW malt and some darker crystal, 140L from memory. It was a REALLY tasty beer so I still hold high hopes for this one, definitely needs filtering though as it's a super hazey beer due to low flocculation

What would people recommend as a replacement yeast? I was recommended this one as it was meant to be good for high OG beers, I guess I just had too little fermentable sugar

 

[Stagger]

1098 is you friend, this yeast is great i also no longer use 1084 for all the above.

Craig

 

[xtrabyte]

No worries, thanks for the valuable input guys. My last recipe was very similar to this one, had the same grain bill but user JW malt and some darker crystal, 140L from memory. It was a REALLY tasty beer so I still hold high hopes for this one, definitely needs filtering though as it's a super hazey beer due to low flocculation

What would people recommend as a replacement yeast? I was recommended this one as it was meant to be good for high OG beers, I guess I just had too little fermentable sugar

I have had a lot of success with Wyeast 1028 London Ale Yeast, ranging from a light ale to a porter

 

[Screwtop]

73%AA from 1.061 is around 1.016 add a few points for the Beta rest and cara malt recon it will be done at 1.019.

A tip with this yeast, pitch at the low end and once it has been going for a couple of days raise the temp to the upper limit. Active fermentation is where the majority of esters are produced, raising the temp helps it finish out otherwise it will stop and floc.

Screwy

 

[Adzmax]

Good to know, thanks guys

 

[mfdes]

I've used 1084 with no issues to make some killer stouts, with the provisos of big pitch of yeast, pitching cool to not stress it (the yeast is in a warming, rather than a cooling environment), and allowing to warm towards the end of fermentation. It's not a big attenuator and a high mash temperature may be all that caused the high FG.
In a 1.060 stout I think 1.024 is not too bad anyway, especially if well hopped. I usually mash cooler for this yeast to ensure attenuation.

In any case I've found out 1056 / wlp001 make a very good stout for me and are better behaved, as well as the fact I can re-use them several times 'cause they're so versatile. Anyone else using the cal ale yeast for stouts?

MFS