Ferment in a Kettle (FIAK)

[mje1980]

Whirlpool and/or wait 15mins.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Thank you Mark, very interesting.

Pardon my ignorance, but it’s still not clear how hot break is removed when people do no chill brewing. It ends up in the trub after brewing doesn’t it? And from what I’ve seen most no chill people go straight from boil into the cube and don’t siphon out of their cube into the fermenter.

I'm no technical expert - so cant offer up an awesome scienc-ey answer like @MHB can..

But my no chill process involves letting the kettle sit and the hot break, hop matter etc settle.

Watch the kettle as it sits after the boil is over - you can see the thermal currents moving stuff around (it quiet mesmerising to watch). I try to let it sit until that movement has stopped, or at least mostly stopped.

Then drain to the cube without disturbing the trub

You do however need to make sure it is still hot enough going into the cube to sterilise the cube - so don't let it sit and cool too long

 

[Coalminer]

As above post #21
Whirlpool and wait 15-20min with the lid on (to minimise convection currents) keep lid on boiler till cube full
transfer to cube and leave the last 1-2 litres in the kettle
Good to budget for 22 litres in cube and 2 litres waste after boil

 

[MHB]

Thank you Mark, very interesting.

Pardon my ignorance, but it’s still not clear how hot break is removed when people do no chill brewing. It ends up in the trub after brewing doesn’t it? And from what I’ve seen most no chill people go straight from boil into the cube and don’t siphon out of their cube into the fermenter.

Hope the posts above answer your question.
I'm brewing on a Braumeister (well 2 of them a 10L and a 200L), on the 10L at home there is about 1L of dead space under the tap, I just wait until all motion has stopped, run the wort into a cube leaving all the crud behind.
My "Cube" is a jerry type, if you pour carefully most of the cold break will stay in the cube, but as above a bit of cold break isn't an issue.
Truth is, a bit of hot break probably ends up in the fermenter no matter how careful we are, but there is a big difference between a bit and all of it. Do the best you can, don't be greedy, I would rather have 19L of good beer than 20L of so so beer.
Mark

 

[fdsaasdf]

Thank you Mark, very interesting.

Pardon my ignorance, but it’s still not clear how hot break is removed when people do no chill brewing. It ends up in the trub after brewing doesn’t it? And from what I’ve seen most no chill people go straight from boil into the cube and don’t siphon out of their cube into the fermenter.

Quite simply hot break is left in the kettle by selectively drawing the liquid wort from the vessel and leaving the trub behind. This is AG brewing 101.

Taps in kettles are very rarely level with the bottom so there is always some loss, potentially reduced by an attachment to lower the draw level or the kettle is tilted.

Some people use various screens and filters, or just draw the liquid from the side away from the trub cone left after whirlpooling.

Edit: beaten by the two above while I read the whole thread and missed the second page...

 

[philrob]

The hot break is mostly left behind when the kettle is drained into the cube before "no chilling", surely?
No different to what I do, to my way of thinking. I don't "no chill", and use an immersion chiller in my kettle, then wait about 20 minutes after I remove the chiller and whirpool my wort. I drain, and leave all the crud behind. I think draining from the kettle to a "no chill" container would achieve much the same result?

 

[Sjek]

Righto, thanks everyone.

I just never considered it, I always chill and thought the no chillers just poored straight from the boil into cube. That’s how it always sounded to me when people talked about it.

 

[mje1980]

In a rush I’ve done that, straight into the cube after the boil. Resulting beer tasted fine but was hazy.

 

[stevonz]

Thank you Mark, very interesting.

Pardon my ignorance, but it’s still not clear how hot break is removed when people do no chill brewing. It ends up in the trub after brewing doesn’t it?

Whirlpool at the end of the boil. Wait 10 mins & then transfer to cube... the hot break remains in the kettle.

 

[grandadrob]

England calling.....I mash for 75 minutes at around 68 deg C then transfer the liquor to the boiler. As it heats up I scoop off the brown sludge. Once boiling I add hops in stages. At end of boil I leave for 2 hours then jug the wort into my FV's, 13 and 9 litre stainless steel pans with lids. I then cool these in a water bath. Then I add hydrated yeast.........
Why complicate a simple process ?

 

[S.E]

England calling.....I mash for 75 minutes at around 68 deg C then transfer the liquor to the boiler. As it heats up I scoop off the brown sludge. Once boiling I add hops in stages. At end of boil I leave for 2 hours then jug the wort into my FV's, 13 and 9 litre stainless steel pans with lids. I then cool these in a water bath. Then I add hydrated yeast.........
Why complicate a simple process ?

The no chill in a cube method actually simplifies your method. After the boil let it settle 15-30 minutes depending on the shape and volume of your kettle. Then transfer to a cube, seal it and let it cool at ambient over night or in a bath or pool if you want to cool it quicker. The wort will then keep for months even years so you can add yeast at you convenience.

Not sure why you are getting brown sludge in you kettle is that with every brew? Do you recirculate the wort through the grain bed before transfer to the kettle?

 

[Sjek]

The no chill in a cube method actually simplifies your method. After the boil let it settle 15-30 minutes depending on the shape and volume of your kettle. Then transfer to a cube, seal it and let it cool at ambient over night or in a bath or pool if you want to cool it quicker. The wort will then keep for months even years so you can add yeast at you convenience.

Not sure why you are getting brown sludge in you kettle is that with every brew? Do you recirculate the wort through the grain bed before transfer to the kettle?

I think he's referring to the hot break when your wort reaches boiling.

 

[Grmblz]

England calling.....
Why complicate a simple process ?

Welcome POM (I'm allowed to say that being a dualy) a couple of observations for ya.
Your process:
aerates the wort, much discussion here on the advisability of doing that given the advances in dried yeast production techniques.
hydrates the yeast, much discussion here on the advisability of doing that given the advances in dried yeast production techniques.
involves lifting 25kg ish (23ltr wort) in and out of a water bath, not everyone (us old bastards) can do this easily if at all, and it's quite common here for people to do double batches, 65/70ltr single vessel brewing systems being quite common, so lifting 50+kg?
exposes the wort unnecessarily to infection, possibly not so much of an issue in temperate climates but a real issue in warmer climes.
there's more but others will chime in no doubt.


@S.E. a pool? He's in the UK, so if he's got a pool it's indoors and heated, so he's a billionaire, and probably not homebrewing

 

[kadmium]

England calling.....I mash for 75 minutes at around 68 deg C then transfer the liquor to the boiler. As it heats up I scoop off the brown sludge. Once boiling I add hops in stages. At end of boil I leave for 2 hours then jug the wort into my FV's, 13 and 9 litre stainless steel pans with lids. I then cool these in a water bath. Then I add hydrated yeast.........
Why complicate a simple process ?

Are you telling me you skim off the goo? I stir that stuff back in. Stirrer baby, not a skimmer!!!

Legit though, that's just hotbreak and there's always a debate on skim vs stir haha.

Homebrew can be a simple process, or it can be a very complicated process. Like virtually anything worth doing.

In the end I take enjoyment out of complicating it and obsessing over minute details, but then again that's just what I'm like. Plenty of people make good beer doing it basic, plenty of people make exceptional beer chasing the 1% and plenty of both make bad beer!

 

[S.E]

@S.E. a pool? He's in the UK, so if he's got a pool it's indoors and heated, so he's a billionaire, and probably not homebrewing

We had a pool in the UK. Pumped it up and left it outside all week for summer then packed it back in the shed the following week.

 

[S.E]

I think he's referring to the hot break when your wort reaches boiling.

I’ve never had brown sludge hot break. At least not that I have ever noticed.

 

[kadmium]

I’ve never had brown sludge hot break. At least not that I have ever noticed.

High protein or and dark malts, when the hot break forms and you get the foam on top before the boil is what I believe he is referring to.

 

[S.E]

High protein or and dark malts, when the hot break forms and you get the foam on top before the boil is what I believe he is referring to.

Perhaps it is but he said “As it heats up I scoop off the brown sludge” which sounded a bit strange to me.

 

[MHB]

I remember asking a renowned brewing consultant this question.
His take was - there is a finite amount of head building ingredients in a beer, you don't want to remove any.
Not everything that forms foam early is good, but If its no good it winds up in the trub, if its good it stays in the beer and helps form head.
People who mill very fine and BIAB often see a lot more grey sludge on top as the wort heats, that is mostly Draff,
just fine malt powder, it to will end up in the trub.
Its all the stuff that I don't want in beer that does wind up in the bottom of the kettle that concerns me most about this notion of fermenting in the kettle.
Been thinking about how it could be done to what I regard as a professional standard and the answers I'm coming up with aren't either cheap nor easy to build. I'm also far from sure how well a CCV kettle would preform for that matter, a lot of brewers don't realise that the shape of a kettle and how the heat is applied can make really big differences to the beer you get out of your brewery.
Mark

 

[S.E]

People who mill very fine and BIAB often see a lot more grey sludge on top as the wort heats, that is mostly Draff

That’s what I was thinking and why I asked if the wort was being re circulated through the grain bed to filter it out. I haven’t brewed BIAB since about 1994 and always re circulate these days.