Extract Brewing To 50l Kegs

[iralosavic]

I've definitely decided to keg instead of bottle, but I'm a bit torn between when it comes to 18/19L cornelius kegs vs 50L commercial kegs. I can get a hold of a few legal (or at least I think they are!) kegs from my grandpa, who is just isn't drinking enough to justify 50L kegs now that he's almost 90! or I can buy corny kegs good to go for $60ea. The free option sounds cheaper, however, I'm not so sure it's ideal for extract brewing.

I've got a fridge ready to convert to a fermenting cabinet (the temp controller is in the mail) and now I'm ready to start buying up on kegging gear followed by the appropriately sized fermenter (depending on the keg size I go with). So a few doubts I have are:


1. Extracts appear to be good for 20L batches, so combining 2 is still too little and 3 is 10L over. How would you tackle this?

2. Being such a large batch, what extra precautions would be required for pitching the yeast? (Would you just combine all 2-3 packets and pitch as per instructions or would you need to make a starter or something?)

3. Carbonating. How much headroom is ideal in each scenario and will this mean a lot more c02 is necessary to carbonate a 50L keg?

4. How about sanitising the keg? Would this be much more challenging than with a corny keg? I think my grandpa has some kind of "key" that he takes the seals out with, but access to the inside is through a smaller opening than a corny keg.


Cheers

I'm sure there are questions I should be asking that I haven't too...

 

[hsb]

I would use Corny kegs at home, they are much more convenient.
You'll need all the add-ons to hook up the kegs and you'll find they are different for 50l v 19l kegs.

If you have a 20L batch, you can just bottle a couple. Or scale your recipe to fit 19L. I just bottle a couple with the excess.

Mr Malty (.com) is your friend for how much yeast to pitch.
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html


Headroom in kegs - you (ideally) want to leave enough to leave the gas dip tube free = not much.
It shouldn't have a major bearing on CO2 usage, the keg will empty and the headspace fill with CO2 when you drink it anyway.

Sanitising is easier with a Corny, since you can get your arm right in there but it's probably the least important reason to use 19 over 50L kegs - you can use chemical cleaners/sanitisers to mean you don't need access to the inside of the keg at all, not a big deal.

For me the biggest reasons are. a - do you want to be stuck drinking 50L of the same beer? less scope for variety b. handling, 50kg plus is a hassle, sure you can work out ways to avoid needing to lift it but still a hassle. c. storage - you're probably only going to have room to chill 1 x 50L keg - so you're stuck on 'a' again.

You could give the 50l a go, since you have access to it anyway (fair play to grandpa! great stuff!), you don't have to fill them to the brim. But for me I'd say cornies are far and away more popular for good reason.

FWIW I don't drink that much (!) and prefer to have up to 6-7 different beers readily available on tap, rather than a monster keg of the same one. (getting big into blending my beers at the moment as well, gives them a new angle)
If you just want a big ole keg of your regular always on tap, maybe 50l suits you better.

 

[iralosavic]

I would use Corny kegs at home, they are much more convenient.
You'll need all the add-ons to hook up the kegs and you'll find they are different for 50l v 19l kegs.

If you have a 20L batch, you can just bottle a couple. Or scale your recipe to fit 19L. I just bottle a couple with the excess.

Mr Malty (.com) is your friend for how much yeast to pitch.
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html


Headroom in kegs - you (ideally) want to leave enough to leave the gas dip tube free = not much.
It shouldn't have a major bearing on CO2 usage, the keg will empty and the headspace fill with CO2 when you drink it anyway.

Sanitising is easier with a Corny, since you can get your arm right in there but it's probably the least important reason to use 19 over 50L kegs - you can use chemical cleaners/sanitisers to mean you don't need access to the inside of the keg at all, not a big deal.

For me the biggest reasons are. a - do you want to be stuck drinking 50L of the same beer? less scope for variety b. handling, 50kg plus is a hassle, sure you can work out ways to avoid needing to lift it but still a hassle. c. storage - you're probably only going to have room to chill 1 x 50L keg - so you're stuck on 'a' again.

You could give the 50l a go, since you have access to it anyway (fair play to grandpa! great stuff!), you don't have to fill them to the brim. But for me I'd say cornies are far and away more popular for good reason.

FWIW I don't drink that much (!) and prefer to have up to 6-7 different beers readily available on tap, rather than a monster keg of the same one. (getting big into blending my beers at the moment as well, gives them a new angle)
If you just want a big ole keg of your regular always on tap, maybe 50l suits you better.

Thanks for your reply and the link!

So you wouldn't just do a tripple batch and use all three packets of yeast? - This is the point where I'm a bit confused. Cheers

 

[jbowers]

Thanks for your reply and the link!

So you wouldn't just do a tripple batch and use all three packets of yeast? - This is the point where I'm a bit confused. Cheers

You can do that, definitely.

 

[iralosavic]

You can do that, definitely.

Cheers.

Just one last question. If I do a double extract batch (23L x2 = 46L), how can I get the quantity up a little higher without diluting the beer further? 46L will end up more like 44L once transferred from fermenter to keg (and maybe more if a secondary/conditioning fermentation transfer is involved). So I'll want to make up a few litres to get closer to capacity in the 50L keg.

Any ideas?

 

[XavierZ]

Cheers.

Just one last question. If I do a double extract batch (23L x2 = 46L), how can I get the quantity up a little higher without diluting the beer further? 46L will end up more like 44L once transferred from fermenter to keg (and maybe more if a secondary/conditioning fermentation transfer is involved). So I'll want to make up a few litres to get closer to capacity in the 50L keg.

Any ideas?

Triple Batch, keg what you can, bottle the rest.

 

[cam89brewer]

Triple Batch, keg what you can, bottle the rest.

+1 I agree, it will save time and effort by doing triples and just bottling the left over.....

 

[QldKev]

Screw bottles, those things are hard work.
Triple batch, 50L keg plus 18L corny
Or just push the batch from 20 to 25L

I've always wanted to try the 50L kegs. Storage due to the shape is the killer for me. My current maturing fridge holds 5 x corny kegs, or 1 x 50L. My serving fridge holds 3 x corny or 1 x 50L. I loose out every where with the 50L. If you are going a chest freezer, 50L kegs may fit better? The other issue is cleaning them, but if your grandpa is already using them for beer he would have that sorted.

I purchased a large chest freezer for a conversion to a kegerator. I was going to have 2 x 50L for house beers, and fill the rest with corny kegs for other beers.

QldKev

 

[Maheel]

they are fricking heavy to lift into a chest freezer but...

 

[glenwal]

Get a 50L keg and turn it into a BIAB urn for double batches, then use corneys?

 

[booargy]

If the 50L kegs are free snap em up.
Use 3 cans and reduce the sugar to make 55L.
Rack to 50L let if finish with the keg sealed to carbonate.
Use gas to push to a bright keg.
Serve in 19L kegs. You can have your favourite beer in bulk. but also have the
They aren't that hard to clean. I just soak with napisan then rinse. A pot of boiling water to sanitise.
they are good value and good value

 

[mattyra]

Get a 50L keg and turn it into a BIAB urn for double batches, then use corneys?

+1 for this idea. I was also looking at the 50L v the 19L keg. The main reason I went for the smaller kegs is because I wanted a couple of taps coming off my kegorator (2 19L kegs fit quite well in my tiny fridge where as only 1 50L keg was a squeeze). I also "legally" acquired some 50L kegs and a coupler from the father in law which is what put the thought in my head.

After doing all that I am quite happy because I am using the 2 50L kegs I obtained as a brew kettle and HLT when I have finished building them. I also only have to carry corny kegs when swapping over, much much easier.

 

[brettprevans]

I've definitely decided to keg instead of bottle, but I'm a bit torn between when it comes to 18/19L cornelius kegs vs 50L commercial kegs. I can get a hold of a few legal (or at least I think they are!) kegs from my grandpa, who is just isn't drinking enough to justify 50L kegs now that he's almost 90! or I can buy corny kegs good to go for $60ea. The free option sounds cheaper, however, I'm not so sure it's ideal for extract brewing.

I've got a fridge ready to convert to a fermenting cabinet (the temp controller is in the mail) and now I'm ready to start buying up on kegging gear followed by the appropriately sized fermenter (depending on the keg size I go with). So a few doubts I have are:


1. Extracts appear to be good for 20L batches, so combining 2 is still too little and 3 is 10L over. How would you tackle this?

2. Being such a large batch, what extra precautions would be required for pitching the yeast? (Would you just combine all 2-3 packets and pitch as per instructions or would you need to make a starter or something?)

3. Carbonating. How much headroom is ideal in each scenario and will this mean a lot more c02 is necessary to carbonate a 50L keg?

4. How about sanitising the keg? Would this be much more challenging than with a corny keg? I think my grandpa has some kind of "key" that he takes the seals out with, but access to the inside is through a smaller opening than a corny keg.


Cheers

I'm sure there are questions I should be asking that I haven't too...

wow you've mixed up a few issues into 1 issue havent you?
im sure we have had simialr/same questions asked somewhere within the last few months.
some of the posts already will have answered your questions but here's my 2c

understand that you have several mutualy exclusive issue and a few issues that have a follow on impact but arent mutually inclusive

re your Q1. - its makes no diff as to whtehr your kegging k&k, extract or AG. a keg is a keg. beer goes in it. the keg size is irrelevant from the point of view of what goes in it. the guy who did my stainless welding years ago, did K&K and put it in 50L kegs for his workers.
your ability to brew enough (ie volume) is a completely differant question/issue. adjust your recipe to make 50L. no brewer is stuck brewing pretermined volumes (ie it must be 21, 42 or 63L etc). you control batch size by ingrediant amounts (and of course the capacity of your equipment).

Q2 - you should know the answer to this by now. larger volume or gravity requires more yeast. nothing else is differant. look up the yeast pitching threads/mr malty etc.

Q3. irrelevant. headroom in a keg does affect rate of absorbtion of C)2 into wort but really its pretty minimal. and yes a 50L keg requires more Co2 than a 19L to carb because it has 2.6 times the volume. but it takes the same amoutn of gas to carb up 2.6 19L kegs. so there is no 'loss in efficiency' in carbing.

Q4. yes it can be a bit more of a pain to clean as you have less access but how often do people try and get their arms etc into a 19L corny? I never have. just use PBW star san etc as you would with a 19L keg.

SPEAR assembly -
depending on the type of keg there are ways to modify the spear assembly to make access easier so you dont need special tools to open. there are threads on AHB on how to modify spears (possibly by screwtop, i cant remember. its one of the QLD blokes who wrote the thread).

50L kegs are great. but are heavy. so lifting into a keezer is a PITA (I know from experiance). but the solution is to put it into the keezer empty and then fill into the keg, not fill then lift in. great for fridges though. plus if they are legal (lets assume they are for ease of not starting arguments) and they arent costing you anything then it mens you can utilise your money wlsewhere in the brewery. then later if you decide to change to 19L kegs you can sell off the kegs (assuming they are legal) or cut up/modify for use in your brewery.

if you decide to get 19L kegs, you can get them cheaper than $60 (site sponsors etc).

edit: ill prologue this by saying that this is from exp using 50L kegs