Excessive yeast bite / back end bitterness?

[Nizmoose]

Hi guys I've brewed a batch of pacific ale clone and have an issue post bottling. This recipe has been cursed for months, first time a grain order went wrong and then this time old hops, yeast and a poor starter seem to be teaching me lessons. Basically the beer is great on the front end but then the back end is bitter and harsh. It's not hop bitterness as I added like seriously 3g centennial @60 minutes and then all galaxy. It's not the harsh galaxy bitterness problem either as all the galaxy went in at 10 5 and flame out. I wouldn't call it soapy but it's close and really ruins the beer. I'm attributing it to my yeast which was my 5th generation of washed us05, the starter didn't really get going but I decanted and pitched anyway which I know is a shitty decision. My questions are:is this definitely / most likely the yeast and is it likely to go away with conditioning?

 

[manticle]

Yes and no.

Yes sounds like the yeast, no I doubt it will go away. Do it again with fresh yeast. My experience of yeast farming is that is scarcely worth it with the price and availability we now have.
If you do want to persist, you need to be anal about process as you are dealing with microbiology.

 

[Adr_0]

Sure it's not chlorophenol?

 

[Nizmoose]

Yes and no.

Yes sounds like the yeast, no I doubt it will go away. Do it again with fresh yeast. My experience of yeast farming is that is scarcely worth it with the price and availability we now have.
If you do want to persist, you need to be anal about process as you are dealing with microbiology.

Thanks manticle, I would prefer to wash yeast manly because I'm doing 10L batches and so spending $5 on yeast each batch seems a bit mental to me when my grain bill costs me $7 I know this is completely self inflicted. I should mention that my previous washes did a great job in the batches and the starters were all nice when I pitched. The lesson I take is that I need to prepare starters earlier and make sure there is a HEALTHY yeast population. I do believe I wash the yeast fairly well and have looked into acid washing and such but came to the conclusion that on the homebrew scale it's probably not necessary. One thing I think I need to stop doing is pitching cold yeast slurry into too warm starter wort. I always gotten impatient when letting the cold crashed washed yeast warm up and the warm starter wort cool down and that needs to change. Sad to hear it probably wont go away but its a lesson learnt and a mistake I wont make again

Sure it's not chlorophenol?

No idea how I'd be able to tell? Okay just had a google and im getting medicinal taste? I definitely wouldnt describe it like that, the best way to describe it is like saying its all on the back end and is a harsh bitterness like the beer is unbalanced in the OG/IBU department but it finishes with a sharp unpleasant bitterness, thats a terrible description but about all I can describe.

 

[manticle]

$5 saved on yeast vs 10+ in shit, drainpoured beer. Maths, you do, yoda.

 

[Nizmoose]

$5 saved on yeast vs 10+ in shit, drainpoured beer. Maths, you do, yoda.

Well to be fair it was $5 dollars spent on yeast for four great batches and one bad one, my first ever by the way. So my maths at $7 dollars a batch in grain plus $5 of us05 makes $28 for the good batches and adding $7 for the bad one makes four batches cost 35 plus 5 (40). five batches at 13 dollars each if new yeast is purchased every batch means 4 batches costs $52 dollars, so it's cheaper to wash yeast and screw every fifth batch which I DON'T plan on doing anyway. No offence but my maths is fine.

 

[Eagleburger]

I had a soapy taste in a brew not long after I started. I had been washing yeast so I was surprised, as it apparently comes from the breakdown of old trub. I found washing to be a pain so I stopped and just rinsed once with beer the yeast was in. Didnt have anymore problems after that. Could also be that my techniques evolved. I did endevour to transfer less trub from the kettle to fermenter.

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

I wouldn't bother washing US05 just top crop it, its much easier and quicker,

Then you can grab 4 or 5 jars of yeast from the first brew so less risk of generational change of the yeast and you get the same amount of brews out of your present regime

 

[Nizmoose]

I wouldn't bother washing US05 just top crop it, its much easier and quicker,

Then you can grab 4 or 5 jars of yeast from the first brew so less risk of generational change of the yeast and you get the same amount of brews out of your present regime

This is a good idea and something I briefly looked at but was not sure on the sanitation side of things but I think I'll give it another look in thanks for the suggestion

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

don't fear the foam is all I can say about sanitisation, just make sure you spray the crap out of everything and you'll be all good, once you've done it you'll wonder what all the fuss was about

I used to store under some sterile water for a while in the fridge and then bring up to pitching temp slowly before use and it always took off like a rocket

 

[Nizmoose]

don't fear the foam is all I can say about sanitisation, just make sure you spray the crap out of everything and you'll be all good, once you've done it you'll wonder what all the fuss was about

I used to store under some sterile water for a while in the fridge and then bring up to pitching temp slowly before use and it always took off like a rocket

Actually when I think about it it's not any different to when I get a hydro sample (no tap) I just spray the measuring cup I use and be careful, will have a look into it more cheers for the suggestion again!

 

[manticle]

Well to be fair it was $5 dollars spent on yeast for four great batches and one bad one, my first ever by the way. So my maths at $7 dollars a batch in grain plus $5 of us05 makes $28 for the good batches and adding $7 for the bad one makes four batches cost 35 plus 5 (40). five batches at 13 dollars each if new yeast is purchased every batch means 4 batches costs $52 dollars, so it's cheaper to wash yeast and screw every fifth batch which I DON'T plan on doing anyway. No offence but my maths is fine.

Why would I be offended? It's not only the financial cost I consider, it's the time, effort and maintenance involved in beer production that I see wasted.
As I said in my first post - IF you want to persist with yeast farming (and many do), make sure you do it right.

 

[Nizmoose]

Why would I be offended? It's not only the financial cost I consider, it's the time, effort and maintenance involved in beer production that I see wasted.
As I said in my first post - IF you want to persist with yeast farming (and many do), make sure you do it right.

Yeah this is definitely something I'll work on. A fair bit more reading and some better practices I think. Thanks for the input, I do get the added effort but only being a year into the hobby I quite enjoy trying different things and being involved wherever possible

 

[KevinR]

Instead of farming from previous brews is it worthwhile making a 2 or 3 lt starter from fresh yeast,pour of the beer, divide up the yeast and store it in the fridge. Not tried this or reusing yeast but would be interested in the opinions of those who know of such thingss

Kev

 

[manticle]

Yeah this is definitely something I'll work on. A fair bit more reading and some better practices I think. Thanks for the input, I do get the added effort but only being a year into the hobby I quite enjoy trying different things and being involved wherever possible

If you haven't already, check out some of Wolfy and Yob's threads on yeast farming and culturing. Some good info.