English Southern Brown Yeast Question

[Guysmiley54]

Hi guys,

I'm just about to make a starter for an english southern brown (the Brewing Classic Styles recipe) and I'm trying to decide on the yeast to use.

I have 1028 London Ale (unsmacked) and a vial of 1469 to use. The recipe calls for 1968 London ESB so I'm thinking the 1469 will be closest... My vial is from a pack I split in Feb so I will grow it in many steps and get as big a starter as I can before brew day, does anyone think this sample is too old?

Any thoughts?

 

[Wolfy]

Either of those two yeast strains will attenuate a little more than WY1968, but they still should make a good choice for yeast.
I'd suggest attempting to grow the yeast from your Wy1469 vial in a small sized starter (most of it will likely be dead but there might/should be enough viable yeast to start-off), and then if it looks/smells/tastes fine, step it up to pitching volume.

 

[Synthetase]

Nope. I've got older vials kicking around my fridge. Just give it more time to start.

 

[Guysmiley54]

Nope. I've got older vials kicking around my fridge. Just give it more time to start.

Cool, I'm going to mash fairly high so it shouldn't attenuate too much with any luck!

Will probably step

1: 150ml
2: 500ml
3: 1000ml
3: 1500ml
4: 2500ml

To end up with a 2.5L starter. If needs be I will step up again to 4-5L to make sure it's healthy and strong in numbers. Is it worth growing one of my other vials out to store for a fresher sample (hopefully a longer shelf life?)

 

[Synthetase]

Is it worth growing one of my other vials out to store for a fresher sample (hopefully a longer shelf life?)

Maybe. The trade-off (apart from the risk of contamination) is that you may inadvertantly begin selecting against the characteristics you want. For example, if you crank up a starter and then pour off the spent medium and keep the floculated cells, you're selecting for higher floculating cells (which may alter the character of the beer due to attenuation differences, etc) and against those still in suspension. I don't really think this is an issue unless you do it many times in a row ('many' will be defined by selection pressure you apply) but I'm sure others will warn you against it.

 

[Wolfy]

Will probably step

1: 150ml
2: 500ml
3: 1000ml
3: 1500ml
4: 2500ml

To end up with a 2.5L starter. If needs be I will step up again to 4-5L to make sure it's healthy and strong in numbers. Is it worth growing one of my other vials out to store for a fresher sample (hopefully a longer shelf life?)

5 to 10x are more usual step sizes than 2 to 3x as you are suggesting, there will not be that much yeast growth with very small steps, so they could add more risk (of infection) for very little added benefit.
Even 3 steps at 150-700-2500 is still conservative, but you've cut out 2 steps and a couple of days from the process.

You could easily save a new vial of yeast from the last step of your starter (can even make the last step a little bigger to compensate for the saved yeast, if you think you'll need to).

 

[warra48]

About 3 weeks a go, I grew a vial of WY1968 I had in the fridge since I split a starter in Jan 2011.
It fired up just nicely, straight into a 500 mil starter, and added another 3 litres the following day. Fermented out, chilled and pitched the slurry.
So far it's fully femented a Mild, and a jar of the yeast cake is now on the job with a Bitter.

No need to have so many small step ups.

 

[Guysmiley54]

About 3 weeks a go, I grew a vial of WY1968 I had in the fridge since I split a starter in Jan 2011.
It fired up just nicely, straight into a 500 mil starter, and added another 3 litres the following day. Fermented out, chilled and pitched the slurry.
So far it's fully femented a Mild, and a jar of the yeast cake is now on the job with a Bitter.

No need to have so many small step ups.

Sounds like the biz Warra. Although the vial I am working with is a little on the small side as it was my first go at storing yeast so I have chosen

150
700
2500

Thanks guys, looking forward to getting this yeast fired up again. The Landlord clone I made with it the first time was :icon_drool2:

Anyone tried Jamils Southern Brown recipe?

 

[Guysmiley54]

Oh, and how long do you guys wait between steps? :icon_cheers:

 

[warra48]

I do it on consecutive days.
If it fires, I believe I get all the growth I can within the first 24 hours. Then I just feed it to keep it growing until I have the volume I need. Once that's done I let it ferment out, chill, and pitch the yeast only from the starter.
For my starters I use 2/3rd LDME with 1/3rd Coopers Dextrose, all up to about 1.040 SG. I also add some yeast nutrient.

 

[Wolfy]

Oh, and how long do you guys wait between steps? :icon_cheers:

24h works for me also, there is no need to let the intermediate steps fully ferment out, just give them long enough for the yeast to reach maximum growth. Sometimes I leave large starters (>3L) for an extra day on the stir-plate, and the last step of the process is given a couple of days to fully ferment and settle so that I can just pitch the yeast-slurry.

 

[Synthetase]

I rarely bother stepping starters at all. The growth potential of 3 litres of 1.040 wort is the same regardless of whether or not you add it in stages or not.

 

[sama]

I rarely bother stepping starters at all. The growth potential of 3 litres of 1.040 wort is the same regardless of whether or not you add it in stages or not.

tho 5ml yeast in 3litres v 20ml in 3litres will obtain different results

 

[Wolfy]

The growth potential of 3 litres of 1.040 wort is the same regardless of whether or not you add it in stages or not.

If one assumes starting with a fresh commercial pack/vial of yeast, that might be true - however, that is not what the OP is doing.
The 'growth potential' - as you put it - very much depends on the initial inoculation rate and to suggest that pitching a small number of viable cells into a 3L starter is "same regardless of whether or not you add it in stages or not" goes against most published information and practical knowledge in regard to growing yeast.

 

[Guysmiley54]

Well, the 150ml starter took off nicely so I stepped it straight up to 2000ml... Maybe I should have done an inbetween step but I really want to be ready to pitch by Friday AM. Should have time to ferment out and chill in the fridge.

BTW This recipe has a bittering addition of EKG to around 20ish IBU and nothing else. Would I miss much if I just used Magnum (or something neutral) to bitter?

:icon_cheers:

 

[Guysmiley54]

Well, the 150ml starter took off nicely so I stepped it straight up to 2000ml... Maybe I should have done an inbetween step but I really want to be ready to pitch by Friday AM. Should have time to ferment out and chill in the fridge.

BTW This recipe has a bittering addition of EKG to around 20ish IBU and nothing else. Would I miss much if I just used Magnum (or something neutral) to bitter?

:icon_cheers:

Well it's taken off like a rocket... Now I'm worried it will attenuate down too much for the style. The OG was 1041, will too low FG make it too thin? Is it worth adding some maltodextrine late in the ferment to help mouth feel? I've never brewed a beer so low in gravity before so I guess I'm just over analizing...